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Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 7:24 pm Post subject: Dew Point Temperature/Humidity and Spasticity
Hello all.
I thought that I would share this with you all.
I have had MS for six years now. Intrigued with how I was affected by temperature I began to record my well-being and the temperature daily. It didn't seem to correlate. Remembering how, back in 2004, I worked in an office with really extreme air conditioning and found that my symptoms eased considerably, I bought a hygrometer and found that the relative humidity of my environment and my wellbeing correlated better.
A year ago I was looking into humidity and became familiar with the measurement of 'dew point temperature.' It is arrived at through an equation making it an expression of both relative humidity (recorded by a hygrometer) and temperature |(recorded , of course, by a thermometer.) High humidity on a very cold day results in a low dew point, low humidity on a very hot day results in a high dew point. It is the temperature at which, given the humidity and temperature at any time, dew will appear on the ground… A search on Google made me aware of the work of Russell Johnson, a meteorologist with MS who made the connection between dew point temperature and MS symptoms some time ago. He has written a number of papers on the subject.
I found the correlation to be pretty close, between dew point temperature and my feeling of well being. I was amazed at just how close when I recorded my results over a couple of months.
I would decide how my spasticity was, from 1 - absolutely well through to 10 - immobile. In practice the results ranged from 7 - very stiff and having trouble moving at all, through to 3, where 3 was 'almost no support needed'. (I always rely on furniture and walls to lean on - outside the house I am a wheelchair user). I decided upon how well I felt before I checked the dew point, so as not to influence me. Some days I simply forgot to get this done, but it was nothing to do with me not feeling exceptionally well or bad or anything.
When I finally inputted all my figures into Microsoft Word to make a graph I was simply amazed. When the dew point was high I felt bad, when it was low I felt good - I was amazed at the consistency of it.
Here it is:
Some days are good, some are bad, I used to wonder why but now I know, it’s all the dew point temperature. I found this quite a revelation and now an air conditioner really helps me. I have to keep the dew point temperature below 10°. I told my neurologist about this but he wasn’t particularly interested. Everyone with MS should know about this! If, as I suspect, it has the same effects on everyone as it does me… It would also explain the short term effects of hyperbaric oxygen therapy…
If you are so inclined then get a good hygrometer and keep a diary for yourself and share the results here. I would suggest avoiding cheap hygrometers from Hong Kong though – I bought one and it was faulty. I ended up getting a combined hygrometer and thermometer designed to aid people rearing birds.
Assuming that this info is correct, I have a question.
Does the high dew point interfere with oxygen intake?
I searched this and found no answers- at least not ones that I could make sense of.
Joined: Jul 28, 2005 Posts: 1120 Location: Sydney, Australia
Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:31 am Post subject:
Now I actually have no noticeable issue with heat, I actually have more problems when I get cold.
One question that would need explaining, is the old method of diagnosing MS, before MRI's, where the patient was submerged in a hot bath. If their symptoms got worse, it helped in a diagnosis of MS.
How does the dew-point theory encapsulate this scenario?
can some combination of these measures tell me the dew point? Ken
More:
Ok, I checked the dewpointolator link. What temperature and humidity do you use? The high today in DC was 94, but now it's 74. I don't know what the humidity was earlier, but it's 73rh now.
I don't know anything about the weather, but I have the cool clock. Please share. I'd like to track this......... _________________ My Starting Point
Understanding MS 101: Doctor Talk and People Talk
Cure,
I thought about the bathtub thing also, and I wondered if breathing the steam would make a difference. Is that what you meant?
Why would dew point/ humidity make a difference?
I searched for info on this meteorologist and his theory but didn't find much.
Joined: Feb 10, 2006 Posts: 298 Location: Northern Virginia
Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:26 am Post subject: az
I also just remembered that last summer Kim and I took the boys to Arizona in August. Brilliant, yes? Well actually, Kim walked much better than I expected in the 110 - 115 degree heat. It didn't make any sense to me at all at the time. Now I realize, there was zero humidity. WOW! _________________ My Starting Point
Understanding MS 101: Doctor Talk and People Talk
Humidity definitely makes everything worse for my husband...difficult, as this summer has been so humid wherever we have been or go. He could barely walk yesterday.
Oh oh, I didn't keep an eye on this thread. Very careless, I apologise.
Terry wrote:
L,
Assuming that this info is correct, I have a question.
Does the high dew point interfere with oxygen intake?
I searched this and found no answers- at least not ones that I could make sense of.
Thanks in advance for any reply.
Terry
Hey Terry,
I have no idea why. I had assumed that it was something to do with the body cooling. Maybe it is some function of muscle. I have no idea... Neither has my neurologist (which doesn't surprise me in the least.)
Oxygen intake sounds like a good explanation to me. Any other ideas anyone?
Now I actually have no noticeable issue with heat, I actually have more problems when I get cold.
One question that would need explaining, is the old method of diagnosing MS, before MRI's, where the patient was submerged in a hot bath. If their symptoms got worse, it helped in a diagnosis of MS.
How does the dew-point theory encapsulate this scenario?
I have heard others report that the cold is worse for them than heat. I suppose cold weather where you are could be accompanied by high humidity but this probably isn't the case...
As for the bath, if the dew point temperature is affecting heat conversion or muscles or goodness knows what through the skin then the dew point temperature, 100% humidity and hot water, would be extremely high!
can some combination of these measures tell me the dew point? Ken
More:
Ok, I checked the dewpointolator link. What temperature and humidity do you use? The high today in DC was 94, but now it's 74. I don't know what the humidity was earlier, but it's 73rh now.
I don't know anything about the weather, but I have the cool clock. Please share. I'd like to track this.........
Hey N.A.P.A.Y.
Glad you appreciated it!
That weather station that you have looks perfect. Just key in the temperature and relative humidity into an online depoint temperature calculator... I just use whatever temperature and RH it is at the time... Everyone should note that the indoor RH will usually be a lot lower than that reported on a weather forecast (the outdoor RH is generally higher than the indoor).
Cure,
I searched for info on this meteorologist and his theory but didn't find much.
Mr Johnson has retired now. He did submit some papers to a few journals (an MS journal and a meteorological one, I think) but online there is just the one.
I was talking to my husband about this and I suggested maybe his body works like a barometer... at times of low pressure "liquid"(or something) could be entering empty areas(plaques?)reducing efficiency of the neurons that are left. But I don't really know what the hell I'm talking about...all I know, is that if it's humid, he can barely walk and if it's cold, that's no good either, as his circulation isn't that great and his feet go very white...
Joined: Sep 11, 2007 Posts: 487 Location: southern California
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:26 am Post subject:
whyRwehere wrote:
I was talking to my husband about this and I suggested maybe his body works like a barometer... at times of low pressure "liquid"(or something) could be entering empty areas(plaques?)reducing efficiency of the neurons that are left. But I don't really know what the hell I'm talking about...all I know, is that if it's humid, he can barely walk and if it's cold, that's no good either, as his circulation isn't that great and his feet go very white...
This is fascinating....
There are many who believe that MS is a vascular disease, and that constriction of the blood vessels leads to axon destruction by "starvation." so your pressure scenario makes perfect sense, Why....high barometric pressure would allow even less blood flow. My husband's circulation is bad, as well, and he has a high SED rate on blood tests. We're looking into rheum and vascular issues now. Might be similar for your husband?
AC
PS- my son was born 3 weeks early, due to a large rainstorm in our area. Many women went into labor that night and the hospital was full of us, due to the barometric pressure change. Weather can affect health in many ways _________________ Husband diagnosed RRMS March 2007
20 lesions brain/spine
Copaxone, Swank, supplements, laughter
Joined: May 04, 2006 Posts: 3131 Location: Mid-Michigan
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:56 pm Post subject:
The situation isn't nearly as mysterious as it seems to be but might take some research in order to get a solid understanding of it. There is something (directly related to the dew point) called the "heat index" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_index which, over and above the actual temperature alone, has a direct effect on the ability of the human body to cool itself......or not.
In effect, the air temperature dictates the amount of moisture the air is capable of holding. The amount of moisture already in the air in relationship to the amount of moisture it is capable of holding dictates the amount the body will be able to perspire to cool itself. The speed of the wind increases the efficiency of the process.....IF the air is capable of holding any moisture at all from perspiration.
In this light, the actual air temperature, is not nearly as singly important to the temperature of the human body as most people think.
Bob _________________ Wife diagnosed with MS in Feb. 2006 and is a participant in the Tovaxin IIb clinical trial.
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