More Negative Results for Vein Blockage in MS

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.
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scorpions
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More Negative Results for Vein Blockage in MS

Post by scorpions » Fri May 04, 2012 12:24 pm

I am not sure if this study has been posted yet:
Specifically, what he and his colleagues found was that, of 206 patients with some form of MS, only eight met Zamboni's criteria for CCSVI, whereas these criteria were met by five of 59 patients with other neurological diseases, including stroke.


http://www.medpagetoday.com/MeetingCove ... ting/32376

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Re: More Negative Results for Vein Blockage in MS

Post by Cece » Fri May 04, 2012 12:46 pm

The abstract is over in this thread:
http://www.thisisms.com/forum/chronic-c ... ml#p190788

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Re: More Negative Results for Vein Blockage in MS

Post by David1949 » Fri May 04, 2012 3:49 pm

They ran the tests with ultrasound and MRI. I don't know about the MRI but the ultrasound is nearly useless in detecting CCSVI. In my own case the ultrasound technician said my veins were open and the blood was flowing. The venogram revealed an entirely different picture- left jugular vein 20mm in dia but narrowed to only 3 in the valve. The right jugular vein was 3 mm in dia.

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Re: More Negative Results for Vein Blockage in MS

Post by Billmeik » Fri May 04, 2012 4:13 pm

I have found that when I look at the sunset with my eyes closed I don't see it. Therefore there is no sunset, it doesn't exist.


the nature of the intraluminal webs that fox reported finding in dead MS patients Is that they don't show up well with standard imaging and training. Simks saw a flash on my ultrasound and the venography confirmed it.

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Re: More Negative Results for Vein Blockage in MS

Post by 1eye » Fri May 04, 2012 8:39 pm

I don't know about the MRI but the ultrasound is nearly useless in detecting CCSVI
I don't either so I'll keep mum till I do. I have read some good results using Doppler US. At the lab in Barrie they used it. It is useful for follow-ups, after the procedure has already been done. It is a screening tool, not a final tool to use in diagnosis, but more to direct treatment, which uses something better. Something like how Ultrasound Echo-cardiograms are used before heart angioplasty is attempted. We patients cannot tell doctors which tools to use but we can tell what research is going to be of no use to us. The patient has already had the heart attack, and its severity is tested by enzyme analysis. The Echo is the last step before the angio (at least it was in my case). Smoke 'em if you got 'em, but my mind is clear.
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Re: More Negative Results for Vein Blockage in MS

Post by tiltawhirl » Fri May 04, 2012 9:16 pm

David1949 wrote:They ran the tests with ultrasound and MRI. I don't know about the MRI but the ultrasound is nearly useless in detecting CCSVI. In my own case the ultrasound technician said my veins were open and the blood was flowing. The venogram revealed an entirely different picture- left jugular vein 20mm in dia but narrowed to only 3 in the valve. The right jugular vein was 3 mm in dia.
My ultrasound in Barrie showed 3 of 5 criteria for CCSVI. The ultrasound in NYC showed 4 of 5 criteria. So certainly not an exact or ideal method, but more a guiding tool for further investigation via venography and IVUS. :)

1eye wrote:
I don't know about the MRI but the ultrasound is nearly useless in detecting CCSVI
I don't either so I'll keep mum till I do. I have read some good results using Doppler US. At the lab in Barrie they used it. It is useful for follow-ups, after the procedure has already been done. It is a screening tool, not a final tool to use in diagnosis, but more to direct treatment, which uses something better. Something like how Ultrasound Echo-cardiograms are used before heart angioplasty is attempted. We patients cannot tell doctors which tools to use but we can tell what research is going to be of no use to us. The patient has already had the heart attack, and its severity is tested by enzyme analysis. The Echo is the last step before the angio (at least it was in my case). Smoke 'em if you got 'em, but my mind is clear.
Agree completely.


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Re: More Negative Results for Vein Blockage in MS

Post by CureIous » Fri May 04, 2012 11:56 pm

Yawn.
RRMS Dx'd 2007, first episode 2004. Bilateral stent placement, 3 on left, 1 stent on right, at Stanford August 2009. Watch my operation video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwc6QlLVtko, Virtually symptom free since, no relap

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Re: More Negative Results for Vein Blockage in MS

Post by David1949 » Sun May 06, 2012 2:49 pm

Let's not forget this finding:
Conclusions:
Findings on a Zamboni-protocol US are not associated with findings on contrast venography in light of the high false negative rate; 99% of the patients with a negative US had a significant stenosis and/or flow abnormality treated with angioplasty. A prospective study is needed to define the role of US and other modalities in the non-invasive diagnosis of CCSVI.

Authors:
J. G. Almond1, M. Englander1, K. Mandato1, S. Parikh1, G. Siskin1

Source: http://www.sirmeeting.org/index.cfm?do= ... s&abs=2088

Also how about the azygos? You can't even see that one with ultrasound.

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Re: More Negative Results for Vein Blockage in MS

Post by FLJhawk » Tue May 08, 2012 1:30 pm

I had 2 of the 5 criteria and, from what the doc was telling me based on the ultrasound, I nearly canceled the treatment as what was found seemed so mild. But it turned out I had some interesting blockages that only showed up during treatment.

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