Blood work advice

[Luvsadonut]

Hi all,
I have a doctors appointment tomorrow where I will try to convince the doctor to give me some blood tests on the NHS (for non British users the NHS is the free heath service provided by the UK government). Does anybody have any tips to try to convince the doctor that the tests will be beneficial in my M.S care? The tests I would like are Zinc, Magnesium, Potassium, Sodium and B vitamins.

thanks
Darren

[NHE]

Jimmylegs has a post about that. PM her. Note that she's on EDT, not sure how that will work out with your schedule.

You could always try doing a search...

[jimmylegs]

hi darren, off the top i wouldn't know how to justify potassium and sodium testing in the context of ms, but i do know the importance of the potassium-sodium balance. in case there's time for me to help, why do you ask specifically?

as for zinc and magnesium, take a few scientific abstracts to your doc and you should be able to justify. i just put a couple updates into a post i did a few yrs ago for a brief forum user named mirry. could be useful to print and take with if there's still time. http://www.thisisms.com/forum/post128490.html#p128490

with b vitamins, i've never been able to get every single one tested. if you have to prioritize, b12 should be an easy one since deficiency is part of the diff dx for ms. i don't think i have anything specific to back it up but B1 would be wise also. and B6.

in case you haven't read it, here's my post on bloodwork and such http://www.thisisms.com/forum/regimens- ... tml#p15460

[Luvsadonut]

thanks for your input guys, Ill check out the posts which are a great help. The reason I didnt do a search myself was I wanted some experts to point me in the right direction to ensure I had the best info at hand.
thanks again.

[Luvsadonut]

surprisingly straight forward appointment with the good doctor, she agreed to the vit D, vit B, zinc and magnesium without any question, she even threw in a thyroid test...how refreshing!! That said on the list of tests which she gave me at the end of the appointmenmt there doesnt seem to be an obvious magnesium test, the tests are

Vitamin B12
Bone profile
Full Blood Count
Ferritin
Folate
Thyroid function
Vitamin D
Zinc

does anybody know the mag test in the above? Also as Im currently taking vit D, Mag and Zinc supplemements should I give it a few days to get a true reading without the supplements?

thanks
Darren

[jimmylegs]

hey that's great news that it went smoothly if i remember right the mag would be in the bone profile. that's not how it's done locally for me but i've seen that bone profile test before. and i do think it's a good idea to do a washout with no supplements. a week ought to do it.

[Luvsadonut]

finally got the results back and although the tests are in the normal range here in the UK some seem to be on the low side


Magnesium - 0.88 nmol/L accepted range 0.7-1
Vit D nmol/L - 214
Zinc - 12.2 umol/L accepted range 11-19
Free T4 - 14.2 pmol/L accepted range 9-22.7
TSH - 1.03 mu/L accepted range 0.35-5.5
B12 ng/L - 505 accepted range 211-911
Calcium nmol/L - 2.39 accepted range 2.1-2.55
RBC 10 power of 12 - 4.8 accepted range 3.9-5.4
WBC 10 power of 9 - 4.2 accepted range 3.2-10.5
Platelets 10 power of 9 - 180 accepted range 120-400
MCHC g/L - 325 accepted range 329-359

Ill keep with the 50mg zinc 400mg Mag supplementation, if anyone has any suggestions they would be greatly appreciated.

regards
Darren

[jimmylegs]

hey there good job getting these done!!

a few questions:

I assume the vit d3 level is in nmol/L, that sounds good and high. may I ask, what has been your daily d3 intake recently? right now, calcium numbers look fine. may I ask if you supplement calcium at all?

the accepted range for mag given is not so good.. interesting, I hadn't seen the top end cut off at only 1.0 before. not to my recollection at least.
for mag, you want to be more like 0.95 - 1.1 mmol/L. remind me what form of magnesium you're taking in your 400mg dose? and are you taking that all at once, or in divided doses through the day?

looks like the zinc could stand to increase quite a ways (to 18-19 or so). how long have you been taking 50mg of zinc per day now? what form of zinc is it, if I may ask? forgive me but have we discussed the copper balancing side of things?

can I assume that your b12 level is in pmol/L? if so you're in great shape. if it's in pg/mL, then you're about as low as you want to go.

re that low MCHC.. what's your dietary protein and iron like?

I can make suggestions once I know these additional details

[Luvsadonut]

hi,
thanks for getting back

D3 is indeed nmol/L I was taking 5000 throughout the winter (live in London) but stopped a month or so ago.

No calcium supplementation.

Magnesium is magnesium citrate - 200mg on a morning - 200mg on an evening, only upped this to 400 from 200 recently.
Zinc is bisglycinate 22mg on a morning 22mg on an evening (ooops not quite the 50mg).

Dont take any copper

B12 is ng/L

dietary protein is very good, lots of protein with meals twice a day (beef, fish, chicken etc), I also have pea protein shakes daily.

again, thanks for your help.

[Luvsadonut]

updated values to show unit types...just incase you thought you were going crazy

[jimmylegs]

hehe thanks

okay so good re no calcium supplementation. your status looks fine. absorption is increased by the d3.

good job on dividing the mag. the form (citrate) is not the best for absorption so good idea to up the dose. if you end up with any GI side effects, you could try dropping back to 600mg every other day or every day if needed. how's your intake of quality magnesium foods? (spinach, swiss chard, halibut). where do you shop for magnesium? seen magnesium glycinate anywhere? you'll get more bang for your buck in terms of absorption with that one, if you can get it. I see a poliquin product from the uk that sells magnesium glycinate, but I don't know how much it costs.

now re the zinc. I haven't been able to find good research on absorption from zinc glycinate or bisglycinate. I've had great results with zinc citrate if you can find any. research suggests good absorption from zinc picolinate but I don't think I've used that one yet. I couldn't get it with added copper so I left it alone and stuck with citrate.

if you can find a zinc supplement with 2-3 mg of copper built in, that will be safest. zinc follows a circadian rhythm in which levels are highest in the morning. I tend to avoid taking zinc at night because of that.

all right for b12 ng/L is the same as pg/mL, units just divided by 1000 top and bottom. so keep your levels at least that high. once you get your zinc status organized you should see better b12 absorption/retention.

good news re protein. the other factor to consider for the hemoglobin (MCHC) is the iron.. how's your intake of high iron foods? spinach, lentils, venison, chickpeas (of course you would need to have vitamin C with the veggie ones, to help with absorption of the non-heme form).
here's a list of high iron foods http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... nt&dbid=70
notice the mgs per serving for each. for comparison, a serving of strip loin steak would have 1.6 mg of heme iron. so although absorption is better it is still well down on the list in terms of mgs per serving, compared to spinach. good old popeye had the right idea

[rbain]

Hi Jimmylegs,

Do you take private emails, I was confirmed RRMS in Feb this year, I have been working on my diet, my Vitamin levels and a few other things that I would like some advice on.

I am based in Adelaide SA Australia.

Rod.

[jimmylegs]

hi rod, sure no problem - you can private message me using that little 'pm' icon at the bottom left of my posts.