Gibbledygook's antibiotic log

Tell us what you are using to treat your MS-- and how you are doing.
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gibbledygook
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Gibbledygook's antibiotic log

Post by gibbledygook » 14 years ago

I am 33 years old. I was diagnosed in March 2004. My mother had MS. I was born in May and have no younger siblings. My first symptoms were in early 2002. My symptoms then were transient (seconds - long) loss of motor function and sensory paresthesia in the right arm and difficulty swallowing. the former symptom cleared completely. Months later I had a completely numb right hand and mild malcoordination of the right foot. This seemed to clear but in March 04 the numbness in the right hand returned and my walking became much harder with a burning pain in my left foot and spasms in the my right foot.

In July 2004 I started Avonex. My walking continued to get harder and harder and the burning in my left foot remained. My right hand numbness improved a bit. In November 2004 I started taking 200mg minocycline. Within days the burning in my left foot became more of a bubbling sensation and is now a mild mild transient heat sensation. However my walking continues to be difficult as do the spasms which I had had before. The walking does seem to have plateaued. My right hand feels pretty silky and I can do fairly fine actions with it.

I came across this website only a few days ago and will update this entry every 3 months. I will also be adding to the antibiotics as per David Wheldon's recommendations. I also take an alphabet of vitamins and eat Manuka honey from new zealand with bee venom in it. This is great for keeping the intestinal flora going. Prior to reading David Wheldon's research I ignored the anti-bacterial theory and was happily tucking into the red burgundy and smoking the odd cigarette. I will now be avoiding these! Alas!

There is a website in New Zealand which sells minocycline and other exciting pills (viagra/seroxat etc) without a prescription if anyone has a bothersome GP and cash to spare! The pills arrived from Fiji! (Manufactured in New Zealand).
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Daunted
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Re: Gibbledygook's antibiotic log

Post by Daunted » 14 years ago

gibbledygook wrote: Prior to reading David Wheldon's research I ignored the anti-bacterial theory and was happily tucking into the red burgundy and smoking the odd cigarette. I will now be avoiding these! Alas!
Interesting! I am having two glasses of red wine each night because Chlamydia pneumoniae doesn't like that at all! See below, copied from http://www.newscientist.com/channel/hea ... 124291.800

Two cheers for red wine

AS IF red wine's antioxidant properties weren't enough of an excuse for a "medicinal" tipple, there's yet more good news. It is possible that some of the drink's ingredients behave like antibiotics, helping prevent growth of the Chlamydia pneumoniae bacterium that some blame for clogged arteries and heart disease (New Scientist, 11 January 2003, p 36).

The finding comes from a team led by Gail Mahady of the University of Illinois in Chicago, who tested the effects of ingredients of red wine on the bacteria. They included concentrated extracts from pinot noir wine, and resveratrol, a polyphenolic chemical found in wine, frequently credited with the drink's health benefits.

The team found that both compounds drastically stunted growth of the bacterial colony (Atherosclerosis, vol 171, p 379). "At very low concentrations, probably equivalent to those in a glass of wine, we find that these components inhibit the bacteria in cell culture," says Mahady.

There is some evidence that C. pneumoniae aggravates inflammation and furs up the arteries with fatty plaques. The antibacterial effects might explain the so-called "French paradox" - that despite their high intake of fatty foods, fewer French people suffer from heart problems.

But she admits that other aspects of French lifestyle probably also play a role, such as regular exercise, low sugar intake and the smaller size of French portions compared to those dished up in the US and elsewhere.
From issue 2429 of New Scientist magazine, 10 January 2004, page 16

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Post by Arron » 14 years ago

The red wine point is interesting, but is there a link between smoking and bad flora?
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Post by Daunted » 14 years ago

Arron wrote:The red wine point is intereting, but is there a link between smoking and bad flora?
I don't know. I don't use tobacco so I don't watch that kind of stuff much.

I do know that men get CPn infection more than women, which is theorized to be due to smoking, which increases the risk of upper respiratory infection, but since more women than men get MS, there are definitely some factors to sort out here.

At this page (http://home.earthlink.net/~robert016/mss.htm) a MS patient treated with antibiotics by Dr. Stratton at Vanderbilt notes that Dr. Stratton does not pressure him to quit smoking, because smoking is bad for CPn...!

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Post by SarahLonglands » 14 years ago

Well, from first hand experience as David Wheldon's wife, we both have a couple of glasses of Claret or somesuch every night. David also has been known to have the odd puff of tobacco, although I never have, but only because I don't like it, so, Gibbledygook, you will have to ask him when you see him, but don't give up the Burgundy in the meantime!

Sarah :wink:

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Post by Redd » 14 years ago

Sarah,

I thought in one of your original threads you mentioned clearing your system of meat, dairy and wine to prepare for your regimen?

I assumed this was either that those products minimized the antibiotics effectiveness or would have an adverse reaction to them. I would love on occasional glass of beer or wine, and it sounds like it is safe to do with antibiotics?

Redd...

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Post by Daunted » 14 years ago

Redd wrote:Sarah,

I thought in one of your original threads you mentioned clearing your system of meat, dairy and wine to prepare for your regimen?

I assumed this was either that those products minimized the antibiotics effectiveness or would have an adverse reaction to them. I would love on occasional glass of beer or wine, and it sounds like it is safe to do with antibiotics?

Redd...
If you don't mind me chiming in here:

It is critical not to drink on Flagyl or a day before (or after).

Other than that, I have been told it is cool to have a couple of drinks as long as it is not within four hours of taking the antibiotics....give the liver a break!

I take milk thistle liberally, as should anyone on this regimen.

Their is an anti-porphyria diet in the handout I have, but I haven't followed it, although I do eat in a healthy way, mostly.

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Post by SarahLonglands » 14 years ago

Redd,

It wasn't me, honest! :? You must have been mixing me up with someone else because I have never attempted to clear my system of any of those. I love unpasteurised cheese.

Daunted is quite correct in his postings about both the qualities of wine and the fact that you shouldn't really drink whilst taking flagyl, but that is only for a few days at a time. I think the important thing is not to make all this too penitential without need. It is now 11.30 at night and I am going to finish my second lass of a rather nice Fitou!

Sarah

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Brainteaser
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Post by Brainteaser » 14 years ago

Dear All,

I like the idea of drinking red wine and the discussion regarding its antibiotic and antioxidant properties. I'm not a big drinker but have cut it(alcohol) out altogether since starting the antibiotic treatment regime in January. I have a drugs information book that states that alcohol conflicts with the effectiveness of doxycycline which I take. So, what's the correct protocol? Is red wine OK with doxy, roxi and other antibiotics or not? I would appreciate your advice and confirmation on this point.

Regards & thanks,
Phil.

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Post by SarahLonglands » 14 years ago

Hello Phil,

Honestly, if my husband says it is positively fine to drink whilst taking doxy/roxy it is. He is after all, a consultant medical microbiologist and an FRCPath to boot. There are many books which say you shouldn't drink at all, but I really don't know where they get that idea from and neither does David. Perhaps it is someone who would be happier in the Temperance movement or is a covert Islamist. I wouldn't be so much better, would I, if this was the case? It is probably best not to take both antibiotics and wine at the same time, but there is probably enough time in the day to avoid that!

The only antibiotic where you really should avoid alcohol is metronidizole/flagyl, but you only take that for five days at a time.

So sit back and enjoy your glass of Australian Chardonnay and think how much good it is doing you.

Take care,

Sarah :wink:

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Post by Daunted » 14 years ago

I read up on this a bit and I do have one caveat: You shouldn't drink IMMEDIATELY after taking your antibiotics (or with them) because ethanol can supposedly destroy the active ingredients in your stomach. So take you medications at 6pm or whatever, and don't drink til 8pm.

If you want to be conservative, that's really all you need to worry about.

And, of course, moderate intake is best, to preserve your liver...

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Having a drink

Post by Brainteaser » 14 years ago

Dear Sarah and Daunted,

Thank you for your encouraging responses.....I knew there had to be something good about having MS! At least it allows (and indeed, encourages) you to have a drink as part of the treatment regime.

Without trying to nit-pick, is any wine OK or is it primarily red wine which is encouraged? I note that Sarah refers to chardonnay (white wine?), so that suggests all wine should be beneficial.

Regards and thanks again,
Phil.

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Post by SarahLonglands » 14 years ago

Hello Phil,

Yes, I did, didn't I! Red wine definitely has the best properties re anti-oxidants and so on, it just slipped out because Aussie chardonnay is drunk so much in this country. Personally I don't like it, but it is good to mix with elderberries and blackberries, as a concentrate, when making your own wine. There you get the anti-oxidants from these two fruit in abundance, but elderberries are rather too tannic by themselves and blackberries lack body. Red wine is definitely preferable, ask a French doctor.

Sarah

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Post by Brainteaser » 14 years ago

Thanks for that Sarah.

I am by no means a wine buff.....but I do know that white wines were 'in' in Oz in the 80's and 90's but reds are now 'in', so your tastes seem contemporary. Maybe more people are appreciating the health benefits of reds.

Regards,
Phil.

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5 months on minocycline more recently roxithromycin and ...

Post by gibbledygook » 14 years ago

I have been on Avonex since July 2004.
It's now been 4.5 months on minocycline. I added roxithromycin 3 weeks ago at the same time as 3mg Low Dose Naltrexone which my doctor assured me would not react with either the Avonex or the anti-biotics. This is my update. After starting the roxithromycin and LDN my leg and hand became much much stiffer but this has now calmed down and I am back to where I was 3 weeks ago. The burning in my left foot which had previously caused me to put ice on my foot occassionally reappears as a much milder heat sensation. The degeneration in my walking ability has plateaued, I think. Today I was able to lift weights using my hamstrings much more easily than a month ago. My right hand still is slighly numb but not too bad. Could this stability be random? I don't think so.
Unfortunately I have totally lost the pitiful appetite that I had in the first place. I do definitely attribute this to the minocycline/Avonex/LDN combo. Still I always did pay the penalty for overindulging in the cocktail section! :roll:

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