Gut bacteria linked to Multiple Sclerosis

[ElliotB]

" They just don't have a lot of access to meat, "

Tell that to the Eskimos, one of a select few groups of people on this planet that is TOTALLY MS free, who evolved on a diet rich in high fat meats and fishes, ate minimal greens and also enjoy the lowest amount of sun exposure one could hope to get.

"the strongly plant-based diet of human ancestors"

There is no evidence of this. In fact, there is a substantial amount of evidence to the contrary.

[lyndacarol]

" They just don't have a lot of access to meat, "

Tell that to the Eskimos, one of a select few groups of people on this planet that is TOTALLY MS free, who evolved on a diet rich in high fat meats and fishes, ate minimal greens and also enjoy the lowest amount of sun exposure one could hope to get.

"the strongly plant-based diet of human ancestors"

There is no evidence of this. In fact, there is a substantial amount of evidence to the contrary.

The Eskimos (Inuits) may have "the lowest amount of sun exposure" but the meat and fish in their diet has a lot of vitamin D.

I heard of the Hadza people only recently:

Dr. Robert P Heaney – Vitamin D & Calcium, Fractures, & Kidney Stones – What do we do? (49 min.), March 2013:


In this presentation, "The Importance of Vitamin D", Heaney mentions that today's native Africans, Maasai (pastoralists) and Hadzabe (hunter-gatherers) are similar in D intake to our equatorial East African ancestors.

[1eye]

" They just don't have a lot of access to meat, "

Tell that to the Eskimos, one of a select few groups of people on this planet that is TOTALLY MS free, who evolved on a diet rich in high fat meats and fishes, ate minimal greens and also enjoy the lowest amount of sun exposure one could hope to get.

"the strongly plant-based diet of human ancestors"

There is no evidence of this. In fact, there is a substantial amount of evidence to the contrary.

The Eskimos (Inuits) may have "the lowest amount of sun exposure" but the meat and fish in their diet has a lot of vitamin D.

I heard of the Hadza people only recently:

Dr. Robert P Heaney – Vitamin D & Calcium, Fractures, & Kidney Stones – What do we do? (49 min.), March 2013:


In this presentation, "The Importance of Vitamin D", Heaney mentions that today's native Africans, Maasai (pastoralists) and Hadzabe (hunter-gatherers) are similar in D intake to our equatorial East African ancestors.

Yes, I would call Inuit ancestors hunter-gatherers. Like many they had limited access to meat of mammals, probably ate a ton of fish, probably got vitamin D from fish, elk, and bear meat. The more tropical hunter-gatherers probably got a ton of vitamin D from skin exposure to sunlight.

I am a lot closer in my genetic makeup and likely my gut population to North Americans than either Inuit or the Hadza. I would still like to try an FMT procedure, preferably with a very healthy, active, and possible racially different donor. In the meantime I think the best way to a healthy gut is through high-fiber, fruits and raw vegetables. I haven't got any chance at having anything like the epigenetic or genetic makeup of an Inuit. I have zero chance at a haphazard supplement-based change to my gut population that will be any help to my MS.

[ElliotB]

"I think the best way to a healthy gut is through high-fiber, fruits and raw vegetables."

You may want to do some research on the subject as the 'experts' do not necessarily agree with you on the type of foods needed for a healthy gut.


Doing a search for "foods for a healthy gut" on the web will get you a lot of useful information to get you started.

[1eye]

Well you must have better info than I. The first thing I got when I ran that thru google was

Eat to beat disease: citrus fruit, fibre-rich foods, leafy greens and yellow vegetables.

Research was never my thing...

[Leonard]

Compared to us these people have a large number of extra species of gut microbes (1.5X to 2X as many). The reason is entirely their diet. They just don't have a lot of access to meat, so the fiber contents of their diet is very high. While the rest of humanity has hardly any evidence of epigenetic changes due to diet, I'm sure these hunter-gatherers have a few more.

Co-incidentally, they don't get a lot of auto-immune problems.

exactly, in that case the HERV is kept down.

a few days ago, it was in the news here (Netherlands) that our children don't eat enough vegetables, in fact far from that.

this explains the scourge of autoimmunity in our societies - the epidemic as some would say - and the health problems later on.

MS is then a special case of such an autoimmune disease, I am sure ccsvi/hypoperfusion of the naso pharynx is involved here.

see also the blue print on http://www.thisisms.com/forum/general-d ... 27300.html

[ElliotB]

"Eat to beat disease: citrus fruit, fibre-rich foods, leafy greens and yellow vegetables."

You mean, just like the Eskimos? Sorry, I don't think that eating vegetables is the 'cure' Do some more research. Many 'experts' have a different point of view. Ultimately there is no 'right' answer to diet at this point, no one knows for sure, but we can make 'educated' guesses. But there is agreement that much of the body's immune systems is in the gut, as much as 70% or more, so it only makes sense to insure the gut is well taken care of, especially for those of us with serious illness.

And just because something is written on the internet, does not mean it is true - anyone can have a website (or opinion) and publish it.

Good luck and be well!

[1eye]

No need to apologize. I have been an Internet user since before anybody had even heard of it. I attended the IETF meeting in Boston in 1992, and heard Dave Clark's speech about Kings and Voting. I am singularly unimpressed by it, or by 'experts'. I don't think there is or will ever be a 'cure'. I just think if you want to re-balance your microbial gut population, raw, high-fiber fruit and vegetables will get you there sooner than just about anything. Meat and fish is not necessary. It can provide nutrition, though there are caveats.

I do not want to engage in any research arguments, or anti-meat or pro-meat volleys. I am by my own admission a mediocre researcher. I don't much care what other people eat, enough to want to try to convince anyone. For one thing I am not mobile and do not control my own diet. I share this problem with billions.

See http://www.plantpurenation.com/the-film/ or if you prefer a book, http://web.archive.org/web/200902232220 ... naProject/ There is also an audio version. I admit there is some controversy, but I think these folks studied a lot of people. I am not an epidemiologist or a doctor, or a researcher, but this has a ring of truth to me.

[NHE]

The People's Pharmacy discuss the benefits of fecal microbiota transplants (FMT).

http://www.peoplespharmacy.com/2016/07/ ... ransplant/

[1eye]

Why don't they stop screwing around with EAE and other models for mickeys and start using human MS CSF? Too cheap?

[ElliotB]

"I just think if you want to re-balance your microbial gut population, raw, high-fiber fruit and vegetables will get you there sooner than just about anything"


It is my understanding that probiotic supplements and fermented foods can help repopulate your gut with beneficial bacteria. I have done a lot of research on the this as I am following a high 'good' bacteria protocol and I have never read that raw fruit and vegetables can as well. Frankly, I have never read that foods high in fiber have any impact on but bacteria. Can you please provide a link to where you read this?

[1eye]

"I just think if you want to re-balance your microbial gut population, raw, high-fiber fruit and vegetables will get you there sooner than just about anything"


It is my understanding that probiotic supplements and fermented foods can help repopulate your gut with beneficial bacteria. I have done a lot of research on the this as I am following a high 'good' bacteria protocol and I have never read that raw fruit and vegetables can as well. Frankly, I have never read that foods high in fiber have any impact on but bacteria. Can you please provide a link to where you read this?

You could google "gut bacteria fiber". I think it was the Hadza people I read about having a high fiber diet which makes sense if you are hunting and gathering. The hunting yielded only a sporadic but very varied amount of meat.

[ElliotB]

You may not be aware that sugar is not really good for gut health. Most modern fruits have been modified to be extremely high in sugar.

Modern vegetables have little nutrition for many reasons, mainly due to farming techniques, which are geared towards producing large quantities of food rather than nutritious food.

And most fruit and vegetables are contaminated with chemicals (from pesticides and insecticides). And although 'they' say the levels are safe for human consumption, I don't believe 'them'. Perhaps for healthy people but likely not us. In my opinion, they should be avoided as much as possible.

And organic fruits and vegetables are not really any better than conventionally grown fruits and vegetables when it comes to chemical contamination as organic foods are NOT chemical free (this is a myth created by slick marketing).

[orphansparrow]

Hi all. I was just reading Ann Boroch's book, where she talks a lot about gut bacteria being one of the root causes of MS. (In her opinion). She recommends those with MS taking Nystatin for 1-2 years. What do you all think? Or do you know of further reading I could do on this? Thanks.

[1eye]

Hi all. I was just reading Ann Boroch's book, where she talks a lot about gut bacteria being one of the root causes of MS. (In her opinion). She recommends those with MS taking Nystatin for 1-2 years. What do you all think? Or do you know of further reading I could do on this? Thanks.

I don't like the idea of killing off my existing gut microbiome, unbalanced though it may be. Nobody is going to stop me eating fruits and vegetables either. inner tonight was vegetables grown by my father in law.