This is it!!! Beginning of the End!!!

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Celeste485
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This is it!!! Beginning of the End!!!

Post by Celeste485 » Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:02 am

Hello.
Some of you know me, some maybe read my posts and know my obsession with iron added to all our flour products, Ferrous Sulfate. I have a different enemy now, this time I am sure my enemy will become yours as well. Because this is what leads to ms.
But first thing’s first, my daughter who has ms. She is doing fine, no symptoms of ms what-so-ever. Nothing. We went to Europe for few weeks in the summer and she was doing well even on a bad diet there. No problem with flying, no side effects except little running nose. Me too. This is also the first year without eczema on my hands. No earaches during landing. Less heat intolerance for my daughter. So things are going good. But I finally found the connection to my Ferrous Sulfate and the trigger for ms. Grab a popcorn. :-D.

Lets start with the running nose. I started giving my daughter Zyrtec for it because I’ve read that histamine actually can make the blood vessels and the brain/blood barrier more permeable. After taking that Zyrtec, she was doing exceptionally well and the nose stopped running.

I’ve done a lot of reading, a lot of research from vaccines to carb digestion but most importantly I finally found a remarkable connection between my enemy – Ferrous Sulfate and something else in your body. Something also very important because this is I think this thing maybe what triggers ms. I made this connection because I started having pain, severe pain in my kidneys area and no test was showing anything wrong. I started having these pains on and off since last year but the last couple of months were the worse. Especially after the vacation.

The pain started around the right kidney area and spread out all the way to the pituitary gland. It affected the right side only, upper right of the abdomen, on my neck, throat, sometimes I had difficulty swallowing, right eye, gums, ear and ended precisely on the pituitary gland. Milk Thistle and Glycine supplement were only things that helped me sleep without pain.

One day I started reading about my blood pressure medicine, Diovan and what it does and discovered that it holds potassium in the body. So I thought it might be too much potassium. But potassium is good and sodium is bad so I couldn’t get it. I decided to put some salt in the water and drink it. All that pain was gone. I added only ¼ tsp. of sea salt to a glass of water and sipped it throughout the day, followed up by a regular water. No pain. And this is how it all came together.
Diovan messes up the adrenal glands by holding potassium and therefore removing sodium. Adrenals, especially aldestorone is responsible for regulating the electrolytes. The medicine suppresses aldestorone. So the problem I am having is with adrenals. But adrenals are connected to the pituitary gland and thyroid so I must have some issues with them as well.

I tried this salt cure on my both dogs. One was always allergic to vaccines and was very weak and getting sick a lot and the other is over 16 year old and has thyroid problem but is allergic to the medicines so she could not take them and was very lethargic. Not anymore. The sea salt started giving life to all of us. So, everyday we just take little bit of sea salt with water and we are doing great. My under eye bags have disappeared, wrinkles on my neck are almost invisible, cellulite is dimple-less, we are full of life and we don’t need that Zyrtec anymore. It seems the sea salt is a pretty good antihistamine.

My daughter runs every other day, doesn’t have any muscle problems while everyone in her class does. This is incredible. The salt actually turned out to not to be bad for us. In fact the opposite is true, salt is very good for all of us, no matter the disease.

But of course I started worry that now we are not going to get enough iodine so I bought iodized sea salt. And everybody felt kind of sick. Not good. My daughter said, she couldn’t breathe after run.

So, on to another research, why salt is good and iodine makes us sick? If anything we have hypothyroidism so it should be okay. But it is not because? High doses of iodine in hypothyroid people will make them temporarily hyperthyroid? Hyperthyroidism causes some sort of oxidative stress. So none of it is good. You need the iodine and can’t get it because it will make you sick anyway. A diet high in salt then will make us sick because of the iodine in it. Just like milk. Milk has a lot of iodine in it. That’s why people are feeling sick. But normal sea salt, non iodized salt is wonderful.
There is only one explanation; a connection to Ferrous Sulfate. For your information low thyroid and low ferritin go hand in hand. The thyroid needs iron to work. So I think it’s the amount of iodine in a diet high in sodium that makes things bad for us.

The ferritin stores ferrous iron, or non heme iron, vitamin c helps with iron absorption, I cannot take vitamin c and neither is my daughter. My daughter has ms and I don’t. My ferritin is normal and hers is low. Then why am I feeling worse than her?
There is only one explanation, the ferrous iron or non heme iron and the thyroid malfunction go together. Once you lose the iron you get ms, when you have more iron you are only hypothyroid. Something in my body controls these two much better while in her body the control system is broken.

Perfect example are pregnant women with ms. No symptoms while pregnant because the iron levels are high. Once they have the baby they bleed and when the iron stores go down they start having symptoms.
So, to control ms you need to control ferrous and iodine. I believe these two things don’t work together well. The iodine in salt and bread and regular milk is added, it’s not regular iodine. I think it’s called potassium iodide.
Stay away from that thing because there is a possibility that the iron itself maybe not bad unless it comes with contact with potassium iodide. That is when it oxides. We are drinking now raw milk but I have to still contact the company and ask if they add anything to it.
I was surprised to learn than all the things that makes us unhealthy, table salt, breads, milk all contain the added iodine. Another fake thing that masquerades as the real one. The Ferrous Sulfate may not be bad by itself after all.

The only thing left now is to figure out which is the chicken and which is the egg and which comes first. In the meantime, don’t be afraid of salt, take baths, drink it and enjoy life. You are going to feel so much better. Just avoid the iodized salt, milk and slowly start adding healthy iodine to your diet. If you do happen to eat foods that have the iodide added, then eat iodine antagonists: broccoli, cabbage, soy etc... They will prevent absorption of it.

My daughter loves protein drink that has soy in it. She doesn’t like the whey protein drink. Now I understand why. The added (fake) iodine in it is not absorbed because the soy takes care of it.
This is also why people who live by the ocean don't get ms. Or the Japanese, who eat a lot of normal not fake iodine. The puzzle finally starts coming together.

Iodine is very important for you and you need it but for now take only iodine in small amounts from natural foods to prevent the oxidative stress in your thyroid and brain that will make you feel worse. Balanced diet is important here, eat a lot of fish. Taking Selenium will also help with the oxidative stress in your thyroid. You will also need some vitamins to absorb more iodine from foods, Vitamin E, B vitamins (maybe the folic acid is not that bad either if you take the real iodine and not the fake one), or the B12 won’t have to be sub lingual to absorb it if you don’t consume bad iodine. And Jimmy, you always wondered why your zinc was low, this is why. Zinc is needed here a lot! (You’re welcome. :-D )

I have a lot of links maybe around 170 so I have to go through them and paste some over here. But I wanted you to know this as soon as possible so you can prevent more disease from hurting you. Happy trails.

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Re: This is it!!! Beginning of the End!!!

Post by jimmylegs » Sat Oct 25, 2014 11:32 am

hi celeste,

i actually have never wondered why my zinc status was low. i suspected it would be, due to over a decade of vegan diet, combined with other antinutritive dietary factors. then i had the level tested, and my suspicion was proved correct. correcting the problem has been relatively easy, all things considered.

looking forward to those links you mention. it will be interesting to see the academic backing for your latest findings.
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!

Celeste485
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Re: This is it!!! Beginning of the End!!!

Post by Celeste485 » Sat Oct 25, 2014 6:07 pm

Hi Jimmy, how are you doing?
Now that your zinc improved, how are you feeling? Do you still have any symptoms? Do you think you may be having thyroid issues too? I don’t think you can have ms without the thyroid involved. Also I don’t have the link but I was reading that Celiacs have also thyroid problems. I’ll post it when I find it.

Here are some of the links. That’s how the idea was born.
If you have multiple sclerosis, you should know about new studies that suggest a diet high in salt may be linked to more MS flare-ups.
http://www.everydayhealth.com/news/high ... onnection/
Our understanding of the potential role of sodium channels in multiple sclerosis (MS) has grown substantially in recent years. The channels have long had a recognized role in the symptomatology of the disease, but now also have suspected roles in causing permanent axonal destruction, and a potential role in modulating the intensity of immune activity.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17388954
Results of a small clinical trial suggest that a chemical derived from broccoli sprouts -- and best known for claims that it can help prevent certain cancers -- may ease classic behavioral symptoms in those with autism spectrum disorders.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 152608.htm

For your information, broccoli is iodine antagonist. Also, autistic children are just like ms children, low on ferritin and hypothyroid. Why then do you think iodine antagonist would help someone who needs more iodine?
The thyroid gland cannot tell the difference between stable and radioactive iodine. It will absorb both.
http://www.bt.cdc.gov/radiation/ki.asp

Not just radioactive iodine can be absorbed by thyroid. Bromine can be found in breads and also can be absorbed by thyroid.
An increase in plasma bromine could potentiate an increase in plasma TSH concentration, probably as a consequence of a minor inhibitory effect on thyroid activity.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC501258/
http://www.globalhealingcenter.com/natu ... s-of-salt/

Histamine
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11450085
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/top ... /histamine

I just realized few weeks ago that Zyrtec could actually be the one medicine that helped my daughter prevent the disease from progressing. I was giving her Zyrtec for years, every time her nose run or she had fever. It was the only thing that was working. Zyrtec perhaps stopped the inflammation at the time it was all happening and that’s maybe why my daughter never developed more problems. When she had tingling, she got Zyrtec until it stopped, when she got optic neuritis, she got Zyrtec too. And prior optic neuritis she got one too, because she had allergic reaction to dogs at her friend’s house. She is not allergic to those dogs anymore. I was giving her Zyrtec in Europe and now it helps her and my dogs too. Until just few weeks ago I had no idea that I was already doing something to stop more brain damage from happening. She only takes ½ of Zyrtec every 2-3 days. But this is the only time when she takes it regularly. Before she was taking it only when she had symptoms or if I would expect her to have symptoms. Many times when she had fever Tylenol wouldn’t work, Motrin wouldn’t work but Zyrtec would bring the fever down.

My Maltese dog is allergic to vaccines so the vet gives her Benadryl before shots and she doesn’t have much of a reaction. But I will talk more about vaccines later on.

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Re: This is it!!! Beginning of the End!!!

Post by Celeste485 » Sun Oct 26, 2014 1:23 pm

Before I proceed, I would like to make a disclaimer that everything I write on this board are my personal opinions and I am not a healthcare professional. These are just my opinions and my opinions only. If you decide to pursue anything you are doing it at your own risk.

Here is what I think about vaccines.

The scientists used their knowledge of our immune system to create vaccines by injecting aluminum hydroxide which causes inflammation at the injection site. Uric acid is released from cells, the white blood cells then start attacking the virus/bacteria and the body creates antibodies.
From Wikipedia:
An antibody (Ab), also known as an immunoglobulin (Ig), is a large Y-shape protein produced by plasma cells that is used by the immune system to identify and neutralize foreign objects such as bacteria and viruses. The antibody recognizes a unique part of the foreign target, called an antigen.
Basically, the immune system remembers the offender and recognizes it next time.

But what if the immune system recognizes everything that leads to the offender entering the body. There is no scientific evidence to it, just my way of thinking. What if the body recognizes the aluminum hydroxide which is added to all foods and every time it enters the body is going after it? What if the body remembers the injection itself? For example, you all were given Avonex, a injectable medicine for ms that causes in some people severe symptoms. What if it’s not Avonex but the injection itself, the prick that your body recognizes and start attacking you thinking it’s bacteria?

When you get bacterial infection your body naturally will stop iron from being taken up by the bacteria, because bacteria feeds of iron, so it may stop absorbing the iron, or remove the iron from the stores by some kind of means, or starts breaking red blood cells like in hemolytic anemia? Just a thought.

Or maybe it doesn’t matter if you have the bacteria or not but if your body thinks you have it because you were injected with something, your iron is being lost and then other things follow. The doctors say that you have confused system that is attacking itself.

I don’t think you need a lot to do that. Increase in uric acid is enough to have the T-cells flooding your body and looking for the virus/bacteria.
1. Diuretic medications (water pills)
2. Drinking too much alcohol
3. Genetics (inherited tendencies)
4. Hypothyroidism (a thyroid disorder)
5. Immune-suppressing drugs
6. Niacin, or vitamin B-3
7. Obesity
8. Psoriasis
9. Purine-rich diet — organ meat, game meat, anchovies, herring, gravy, dried beans, dried peas, mushrooms and other foods
10. Renal insufficiency — inability of the kidneys to filter waste
11. Tumor lysis syndrome — a rapid release of cells into the blood caused by certain cancers or by chemotherapy for those cancers
http://www.mayoclinic.org/symptoms/high ... m-20050607
The finding that uric acid directly promotes T-cell activation in an antigen-independent system is novel and might play a mechanistic role in the inflammatory response observed in gouty arthritis and other immune-mediated diseases
.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19057377

As you can see vaccinations are a huge part of the problem. And perhaps because I was a lot less vaccinated than my daughter, she has the disease and I don’t. So, knowing this I will not be injecting us with anything. If it doesn’t come through our mouth, and if it’s not used to save our lives, then we are not going to do it.

Heroin addicts die at much higher rate than other drug users because they inject themselves. A simple flu shot can bring severe symptoms in some people. Insulin injections. Anesthesia. Novocain. Botched Botox?

When my daughter was born I was given Rubella vaccine in the hospital and had funny feeling in my toes. No other reaction. Today I know this was uric acid and it disappeared few weeks later. But I am not the same. Then it was Hpylori , now metabolic syndrome, high blood pressure, possible adrenals, thyroid and it never ends.

I refuse now anything injectable for my daughter, her teeth need braces but I don’t want her injected with anything, and I don’t know if she is going to have it done at all. I'd rather she had one crooked tooth that a more problems just because of simple injection. I also refused Avonex.

This is also how I got into the thyroid issue. We know too much salt is not good for you but why? Salt is needed especially in your body to fight off disease. Salt can kill bacteria, that is maybe hidden in your cells. So why salt is also so bad? It didn’t make any sense. So the only explanation is the iodine in it. But iodine is needed badly by our bodies and the Japanese get a lot of it and don’t have any wrinkles, and are very nice people because they don’t experience the inflammation we have to face every day and that is making our lives miserable.
The reason we don’t know all the little things is that because there is always a higher good and the scientific community is all about the higher good. They are the ones who cause many diseases. I don’t think this is some sort of conspiracy behind it. They are just clueless. They are asked to figure out how to lower the anemia in people, they design Ferrous Sulfate, Folic Acid, B12. The government wants to help people with thyroid, the scientists create potassium iodide. After that they spend billions of dollars every year studying all diseases. They create more medicines and the ball just keeps rolling. But are the things they created really helpful? If we can't absorb them then maybe it is a sign from our own immune system that it doesn't want these fakes in our diets. It's not the immune system that's confused, it's us the people.

So, what do you think about that?

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Re: This is it!!! Beginning of the End!!!

Post by NHE » Mon Oct 27, 2014 1:54 am

Celeste485 wrote:So, what do you think about that?
Comparing a flu shot to heroin seems a bit over the top.

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Re: This is it!!! Beginning of the End!!!

Post by MSandI » Mon Oct 27, 2014 5:00 am

Great information Celeste
I will read this entire post, you have touched on something that is relevant to me.

I do believe that you were NOT comparing heroin and the flu shot per say. I believe your meaning was that not necessarily what was in the vial itself. But how the brain perceives the pin prick of the needle and the response it generates. immediately. Actually the response would begin as soon as you think about picking up the needle. (my own experience with injectable avonex, just the thought of it for the entire day before the shot made me feel agitated).
Thanks
Ann

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Re: This is it!!! Beginning of the End!!!

Post by jimmylegs » Mon Oct 27, 2014 5:33 am

i am not sure i *feel* the zinc exactly, but the first thing i noticed (this is going back about 5 yrs roughly) was that my low uric acid, which i had been trying to work on with diet for years, finally bounced up from the low normal ms average to the mid-high normal healthy control level. other than that, there were so many other nutrients to work on that it's hard to say exactly what fixed what.
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!

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jimmylegs
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Re: This is it!!! Beginning of the End!!!

Post by jimmylegs » Mon Oct 27, 2014 6:04 am

take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!

Celeste485
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Re: This is it!!! Beginning of the End!!!

Post by Celeste485 » Mon Oct 27, 2014 6:55 pm

Sorry for the confusion, I wasn't really comparing flu shot to heroin shot, these were just examples of injections that can trigger reaction. Botox, another example. And it's understandable because the body can control everything that comes through the mouth or nose but not a sneaky attack like that. The scientists know that a vaccine in a pill wouldn't past the stomach.
Vaccination-associated immune hemolytic anemia in two children.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10960515

This actually may have happened to more children but the reactions are just not reported. Many doctors say that reaction to a vaccine is common and it's nothing to worry about. The body then recovers and starts functioning even though the iron stores are depleted.


I remember when I was a teen I could wear nickel jewelry and never had problems but in my 20’s I suddenly developed allergy to nickel. I had a root canal done before that. And when I am dehydrated, I can still feel the tooth. I believe the metals in vaccines and foods or dental products could lead to this this type of allergy. The aluminum hydroxide is added to many foods.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10960515

This one is the most confusing.
Ask your doctor before using aluminum hydroxide together with food. Using these drugs together may alter your kidney function. You should separate doses of aluminum hydroxide and food by 2 to 3 hours. It is important that you tell your healthcare provider about all other medications that you are using including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using your medications without talking to your doctor first.
http://www.drugs.com/food-interactions/ ... oxide.html

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Re: This is it!!! Beginning of the End!!!

Post by Celeste485 » Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:29 pm

I’ve been writing about ferrous sulfate as the reason for ms and nobody believed me. Today my older dog was diagnosed with hypothyroid and got a medicine called Levothoroxine. I spoke to the vet about this and my vet is the first person to agree that ferrous sulfate can be a problem but he added that vaccines are part of it too. He said the dogs don’t always get sick right after receiving vaccine, it may take few months but they do get sick. Then some get better and some continue to be sick. But the dogs that eat ferrous sulfate in their food are definitely candidates for low thyroid and other autoimmune disease. He said, he couldn't connect other irons with it but it may be better to avoid all added minerals and vitamins and give the dogs natural foods. When the thyroid stops working properly, it leads to metabolism issues and other diseases. This dog is a tough dog and still got sick with autoimmune disease anyway.

http://www.drugs.com/levothyroxine.html

What should I avoid?

Certain medicines can make levothyroxine less effective if taken at the same time. If you use any of the following drugs, avoid taking them within 4 hours before or 4 hours after you take levothyroxine:
• calcium carbonate (Alka-Mints, Calcium Oyster Shell, Caltrate, Os-Cal, Oyster Shell Calcium, Rolaids Soft Chew, Tums, and others);
• cholestyramine, colestipol;
• ferrous sulfate iron supplement;
• sucralfate;
• sodium polystyrene sulfonate (Kalexate, Kayexalate, Kionex); or
• antacids that contain aluminum or magnesium - Acid Gone, Gaviscon, Maalox, Milk of Magnesia, Mintox, Mylanta, Pepcid Complete, and others).
Avoid the following food products, which can make your body absorb less levothyroxine: infant soy formula, cotton seed meal, walnuts, and high-fiber foods.

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Re: This is it!!! Beginning of the End!!!

Post by Celeste485 » Sun Feb 08, 2015 10:09 am

Oh, I didn't notice that I am Family Elder. Thanks.

I was studying dogs looking for clues and I found few interesting things. The most important is: my older dog who got hypothyroism is no longer hypothyroid. Her thyroid is normal. But I never gave her the medicine because she was very tired after taking it and couldn’t walk. The vet insisted on my giving her the medicine but I refused. My executive decision paid off handsomely. If you go back few posts, I mentioned that hypothyroism may not be hypothyroism, but rather a response to hyperthyroism which is nothing more than oxidative stress of the thyroid. Same thing happened to my dog. She got the oxidative stress after not only vaccines but also flea treatment. Her flea treatment contains pesticide, neonicotinoid (Imidacloprid). Neonicotinoids are implicated in the death of bees. They work by penetrating the entire plant so when the pest (it's intended for pests), it dies. Meaning, they are inside every food we eat. Fruits, grains, leaves, probably even in meats of the animals that are fed with it.
However some people think that the pesticides don’t kill bees right away. The poison takes over their immune system by binding to acetylcholine receptors at the nervous systems which leads to paralysis and eventual death. Acetylcholine receptors are responsible for release of neurotransmitters. Sounds familiar? You can read all about it here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetylcholine

But there is more. After being poisoned by the nicotinoids the bees become susceptible to parasitic infections, one of them is nosema (below). The spores are sensitive to chemicals such as acetic acid and formaldehyde.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nosema_apis

Formaldehyde is an ingredient in Hepatitis B vaccine. And acetic acid is vinegar, used frequently in Europe. Acetone and all the other chemicals made of it are found also in cosmetics. One of them was in acne product my daughter used. After using it she got petechiae- like spot. Bleeding in the capillary. She also has one on her hand after using hand sanitizer. Both are pin sized but when she used the hand sanitizer again, she got another dot, next to the first one.
This tells me that she has spores of some sort of fungus or bacteria inside her capillaries. And I am sure this is what causes your disease and it makes it so bad because of the possibility of bleeding. It’s not just that you can get hemorrhage in the brain but also blood clots. This is why the vasoconstriction is important. It protects your from possible death while depriving you of oxygen.

My dog was still tired even though the thyroid improved, but I developed hypothermia. My temperature was 95 every day. My blood pressure was high, there was something happening to me, nobody could explain. One day I was very fatigued, so much so that I couldn’t even reach for water from my kitchen island. I was standing by the sink so I had to drink the tap water. I haven’t had tap water in maybe 20 years. After drinking it, my ears opened up, I didn’t even know they were stuffed. Suddenly I could feel the burst of oxygen in my brain, I felt great. So I gave the tap water to my dog. By evening my dog was running, was playful. A miracle has happened. So now we are drinking tap water, me and the dogs. I am afraid of giving it to my daughter because if my theory is correct, she could get much worse before she can gets better. I was hoping that somebody here would volunteer.

I don’t have ms so I can drink the water, but if you have spores inside the capillaries, it’s going to be in the connective tissue, the endothelial cells, the lining of capillaries especially the brain area, and so there is possibility of bleeding. I don’t want my daughter to get sick. The tap water has chlorine in it so it’s the best antibiotic out there and its free. If you get hurt you can sue the water company. I feel great after drinking the tap water. I take probiotic daily and give it to my dogs. I also give them kale and we eat it too. Kale has vitamin K that clots blood. But my daughter doesn’t have any symptoms, but she did get her optic neuritis after swimming in the pool which is chlorinated, so I am very afraid.

So, can somebody here volunteer and describe your feelings?

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Re: This is it!!! Beginning of the End!!!

Post by Celeste485 » Sun Feb 08, 2015 10:32 am

Oh, one more thing I have to add here. The high meat diet is actually benefiting the bacteria. It likes to hide in the visceral fat, the meats that we are eating helps the bacteria/parasite to survive. So, keep that in mind. This is why the disease never really ends. Low fat diet should be the best choice here but it can come with lots of symptoms.

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Re: This is it!!! Beginning of the End!!!

Post by 1eye » Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:58 am

If it were not for vaccinations, we probably would not be reading this. because either our ancestors would have, or if we managed to get born at all, we would probably have died of smallpox by now.
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Re: This is it!!! Beginning of the End!!!

Post by Celeste485 » Thu Feb 12, 2015 8:39 am

My great aunt not only survived polio, she had some small speech problem left but after that she never saw a doctor or took medicine. Biked until she was 78. Died at around 80. Can you say the same thing about our generation?

If you want to volunteer to drink the tap water it's too late. I gave it to my daughter and now she is sick with fever.

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Re: This is it!!! Beginning of the End!!!

Post by 1eye » Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:07 pm

Celeste485 wrote:My great aunt not only survived polio, she had some small speech problem left but after that she never saw a doctor or took medicine. Biked until she was 78. Died at around 80. Can you say the same thing about our generation?

If you want to volunteer to drink the tap water it's too late. I gave it to my daughter and now she is sick with fever.
It's never too late, until it is. In my case, and IMHO all pwMS who get regular flu vaccinations, I don't think it is.

Neil Young and Joni Mitchell survived polio. Closer to my generation. Lots of people did, before Dr. Salk. Of course some survived, but not because of bicycles, or outsmarting it. Some even survived smallpox. Most didn't. I didn't get smallpox because of the vaccine, and I didn't get polio because I was born a couple years later than the vaccine. People who do not give their children vaccines should be watched by the authorities for other stupid dangerous treatment of children, and given Darwin awards. While I don't think much of strict statistically based medical treatment, vaccines and herd immunity are necessary. Witness the recent, and until now unheard-of, measles outbreaks in the US and Canada. Because of 1 family who were not vaccinated. I had measles, and it wasn't fun. Some diseases are extremely contagious, so not getting vaccinated puts the rest of the world at risk, not just you and your kids.

I drink Kanata tap water all the time. I don't get germs from it, partly because of water treatment and added chlorine treatment, and partly because of copper plumbing. It kills them. Do you have copper plumbing?

I get maybe one cold a year, and no flu. Flu is bad, causes MS attacks and worse, the vaccine does not.
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