Slow thinking and reasoning.

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Nemmy
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Slow thinking and reasoning.

Post by Nemmy » Wed Jul 13, 2016 7:43 pm

I'm 34 and I've been married to my husband for 15 years. I was never the fastest thinker due to stress and depression growing up... But since I was diagnosed with MS a few years ago, I feel like I have become extremely slow. I have trouble understanding things that are described to me. I get confused frequently in conversations. I forget words even if I said the word a few seconds beforehand. I forget things that I've said and things that I've done. My reasoning and problem solving skills are almost nonexistent sometimes... Sometimes simple tasks that a 6 year old could do in seconds will confuse me and make me take a significant amount of time to complete. Often a solution to a problem doesn't even occur to me as a possibility until my husband gives me the idea, and then it's so obvious in retrospect.

My husband is a very smart, quick thinker. He's logical and analytical possibly to a fault. He recognizes, believes, and understands my physical symptoms of MS. He's very sympathetic about my physical problems. And yet he continually refuses to believe that my thinking is getting slower and that I really am having trouble thinking. He accuses me of making excuses and using it as a crutch. I don't understand the implication that I would ever want to act like I'm stupid on purpose. It's heartbreaking.

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Scott1
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Re: Slow thinking and reasoning.

Post by Scott1 » Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:24 pm

Hi,

I know what you mean and it's not easy to deal with. When I was first diagnosed over 20 years ago I went through a phase where I couldn't remember what was written in a line of words when I got to the end of the line. My initial answer was to make a short note (maybe a word or two) to reinforce in my memory about what I had just read. Sometimes I used a yellow highlighter to make words and phrases stand out and then i would read the highlighted words as their own sentence to grasp the whole article. I would think of what you are dealing with as one of the forms of fatigue. It is cogitative fatigue. Ultimately it relates to how well you make energy so you need to look at why you can't.
What worked for me was a combination of the preferred drug of the time which as Avonex and an antiviral. In my case it was Valacyclovir and in those days the only brand was Valtrex. The combination led to my brain fog completely lifting and I began to think more clearly. It never helped me put names to faces but that might just be a 'boy thing'. Other things that helped with fatigue were very large doses of co-enzyme Q10 and aceytl-l-carnitine as they aid the electron transport chain which is fundamental to making energy. If you make energy I think your reasoning will improve. It wont change spasticity or gut/bowel issues. They are different issues.
I get where you are and it's not a crutch. Perhaps you could try some of the things I have suggested and see if they help. If you are still in an inflammatory state then your lymphatic system is compromised. It is now known that the brain is not privileged and unaffected by that inflammation so it isn't surprising that you have this problem. Strategies around diet, supplements and medication need to involved to help you. The only thing I am not a fan of are antidepressants as they are not specific enough and only help a few. For what it's worth this is a long, scrambled history of what I did that helped me - http://www.thisisms.com/forum/regimens- ... 24019.html

Knowing what you do at the moment might help some of us make suggestions.

Regards,

Nemmy
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Re: Slow thinking and reasoning.

Post by Nemmy » Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:57 pm

Currently I'm taking three times weekly copaxone, Ampyra, baclofen, and multiple other drugs that are more for other issues. Such as birth control for PCOS and both zoloft and wellbutrin because I have major depression and what my neurologist wrote down as "adjustment disorder".

I definitely intend to be very clear about how concerned I am about my thinking abilities at my next neurologist appointment. I've been having several other new problems recently, especially during the two straight weeks of 105 degree weather last month.

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Scott1
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Re: Slow thinking and reasoning.

Post by Scott1 » Thu Jul 14, 2016 12:40 am

Hi,

Ok. You have major issues. PCOS is well outside of anything I know about.

Definitely go through the concentration issues with your doctor. Look closely for contraindications. If your husband wants to help tell him to go to the FDA website and download the notes for each medication you are on and check if any create problems when combined with another. Doctors make that sort of mistake a lot. Don't ask the doctor if he made a mistake. I know what he will say. Its better you or your husband read the notes and alert the doctor if you find something. Doctors can't remember everything.

Regards,

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lyndacarol
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Re: Slow thinking and reasoning.

Post by lyndacarol » Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:19 am

Nemmy, you received the MS diagnosis a few years ago, and have developed cognitive problems (confusion, forgetfulness, difficulty with problem-solving); you take birth control pills for PCOS and other medications.

I have a couple suggestions: See your GP for a general investigation of your symptoms – not every symptom is necessarily caused by MS. For example, vitamin D deficiency has been linked to polycystic ovarian syndrome (PCOS) – ask your GP for a vitamin D test (the "25-hydroxy D" test), ask for your own copy of the test results so that you have the actual numbers.
Scott1 wrote:Definitely go through the concentration issues with your doctor. Look closely for contraindications. If your husband wants to help tell him to go to the FDA website and download the notes for each medication you are on and check if any create problems when combined with another.
To piggyback on the suggestion from Scott1… You or your husband can also ask your pharmacist about your medications, side effects, interactions, etc.

Again, for example, birth control pills (and other medications) can interfere with nutrient absorption. In the case of birth control pills specifically, they can interfere with vitamin B12 absorption – this should also be discussed with your GP and a deficiency could be investigated with a few blood tests.

By the way, do not take supplements before testing as this will skew the test results.

Nemmy
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Re: Slow thinking and reasoning.

Post by Nemmy » Thu Jul 14, 2016 8:10 am

I've actually been tested multiple times for various nutritional deficiencies, vitamin D in particular several times. And what feels like everything else under the sun. Other than having MS, my body keeps telling the doctors that there is absolutely nothing wrong with me and I'm perfectly healthy. Unfortunately my GP is someone I trust with basic things but not much else, so I'll just talk to my neurologist about the medications.

And while medical advice is appreciated, it doesn't really help the reason I posted here. :/

ElliotB
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Re: Slow thinking and reasoning.

Post by ElliotB » Thu Jul 14, 2016 11:49 am

Do you follow a gluten free diet? Many (include myself) have discovered large improvements in memory as a result of going gluten free (I suffered from poor memory for my entire life) and my memory now is quite good, amazingly good compared to the way it once was).

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NHE
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Re: Slow thinking and reasoning.

Post by NHE » Thu Jul 14, 2016 8:09 pm

Hi Nemmy,
Welcome to ThisIsMS. Sometimes cognitive problems can stem from sleep disturbances such as sleep apnea which is not uncommon in MS patients. You may wish to talk with your doctor about getting a sleep study test done.

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hargarah
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Re: Slow thinking and reasoning.

Post by hargarah » Fri Jul 15, 2016 9:06 am

I think this may have nothing to do with MS and is rather a marital problem. 1) You are getting older 2) Maybe you are slow 3) Maybe he is an ego-maniac...In any case, you may find with MS and some medications, that your memory is not as good in certain parts of the day. With me and Lyrica...I forget some things in the morning. After all, we are changing brain signals.

msinsacramento
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Re: Slow thinking and reasoning.

Post by msinsacramento » Sat Jul 16, 2016 9:37 pm

This is a MS issue. The other people are wrong. I have the same issue and I am 42 years old male with MS. Before ms I was sharp and now I am not due to the MS and Baclofen. Do a google search and you will see this is MS and the Baclofen. Those people have no Idea what they are talking about they just do not understand. I get paid for 8 hour day at work but I work 10. I am the first person in the office and the last one out. I work the extra hours to make up for my disability. I am no way faking it or a slacker. I do what I can do to make up were I am lacking. Those people have no Idea what they are talking about.

baclofen causes confusion ms poor focus, slowed thinking, or a fuzzy memory.

Wow I have the same issue. I was diagnosed 12/11 blew my mind when I found out. Looking back I was having issues 4 years before I was diagnosed. Now it all makes sense. The good news is at least I know now what it is. Can not do anything about it but now I know. My thinking and reasoning has gotten worse, worse and worse. I will say one thing and 3 seconds later I forgot what I said. I will want to say one thing but something different comes out. I am like that is not what I wanted to say. But at least I know the wrong word came out. But often I will say something and did not know what I said other people would correct me on what I said. They know the wrong word came out my mouth which is fine if they corrected me on that. But what is worse is when I say the wrong word, did not know I said the wrong word, they did not know I said the wrong word. They say I said something and we get in a disagreement they say I said something and I say now I did not. I say they are a liar. Really sucks. I really think they are a liar. I need to comes to grips its not them its me. My cognitive issues are really bad now. One minute I know what I am doing and the next I am lost on my thought process. I used to be able to multi task real good. Now if someone talks to me while I am in the middle of something I have to start all over I can't think fast enough. People think I am faking it. This last 2 weeks the heat have be over 100 most of the time and it hit 114 for a minute then cooled off to a nice 108. Dam heat is killing me. The heat makes my thinking worse. Often I just want to be alone. People talking stresses my out. Loud noise stresses me out. The slow thinking and reasoning is due to the ms. Unfortunately the baclofen contributes to it. This is due to the MS & the baclofen. But we need to take the balofen due to spasticity. It a catch 22. This is a very common issue we have. Unfortunately this issue we have very difficult for people to understand. When I have alone time with my friends and coworkers when it just us and no sounds are going on I say. Can I talk to you for a moment. I am having a lot of cognitive issues. My thinking is not so good. My reasoning is not so good. I can not multitask. I have difficulties with my thinking and reasoning and it is worse even when there is back ground sound. I need silence. I can't talk to people in a restaurants people other people are talking. So if we want to talk to each other and you stand right in front of me and look me in the face and talk to me and not try and talk to me when you are doing something else. I think them often the wrong words come out my mouth. I think one thing and something else comes out my mouth. If you tell me something good chance I will forget. If you want me to recall something later please talk to me slow and not do something else while you talk to me. I tell people often if they want me to do something to please write it down or I will forget. They ask me to do something later I say. I am sure I will forget can you write it down. Our say let me write it down. I say can you please say that slower so I can write it down. I do not want to forget please let me write it down. You want to write a lot of things down so you do not forget. I write a lot of things down. I allways have a shoping list going on because I know I will forget. Even when I get back from the grocery store I start my shoping list the same day the moment I realize I need something. When I start to run low on something even though I have not run out I start the list the moment I realize I am running low. I allways tell people I am a little slow I am sure I will forget can you please talk slower I want to write this down. I say its now like a will recall what to do so let me write it down. I am a male 42 years old in Sacramento Ca. Two years ago I was in a wheel chair for about 6 months. My legs just were not working. Really sucked. But now I am back to walking but I use the wheel chair often and allways keep it in the trunk of my car. My walking it get tired real fast. I allways use the power chair at the store because I will poop out real fast. I have a handicap placard and license plate now really helps. Really sucks. I am only 42 years old and I allways refer to myself as a old man. I do not want to go out on disability I like to work but my cognitive issues are real bad and my thinking and reasoning is not good. I work in a insurance agency. I had my doctor if me a doctor note to confirm I have ms and have already given the to my boss and request for a medical accommodation. They all know my issues that I have ms and all the issues I have. I am allways the first person in the office and the last one to leave. I do not want anyone to think I am faking it. I bust my but. When I feel good I try to go over the top and do the best I can because when I am not doing so good I feel I am trying to make up for lost time. So when there is something anything you can do to help out to as much as you can for when the time is there you can't you at least know you are trying to pull your part. I am a morning person. I get of real early and do the dishes, make my breafast and lunch and show up to work early to get a head start on things before other people show up at the office. At home I do the laundry while watching TV. I take out the gargage all the time. I can not vaccum so other people do that because that is so much standing. I pay all the bills as I am sitting down. But I get up real early way before other people get up. Then they get up and go out the house and do there things I go back to bed as I am so tire. I try to adjust my routine to what works at what I can do because other things I need other people to do. If there is something you say would you like me to do that or even better just do it so when you need someone help they at least know you are not lazy you do other things that you can't. You have a friend here we have the same issues. Good luck.

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Scott1
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Re: Slow thinking and reasoning.

Post by Scott1 » Sat Jul 16, 2016 10:37 pm

Hi,

How much Baclofen do you take?

There are a couple of other things to try for spasticity and your memory/processing speed that might be a better choice for you?

Regards,

ElliotB
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Re: Slow thinking and reasoning.

Post by ElliotB » Sun Jul 17, 2016 8:14 am

"This is a MS issue."

Not necessarily. Each case should be evaluated on its own merit. My situation is totally opposite of yours.


"Can not do anything about it but now I know."

This is also not necessarily true.

It is important to understand that memory issues someone experiences as a direct result of an attack may be different than those experienced on a day-to-day basis.

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