CCSVI DEBUNKED

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shadowfax
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CCSVI DEBUNKED

Post by shadowfax » Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:45 pm

This doesn't surprise me at..................I think alot of it was in peoples minds. It's like the anti-biotic theory a load of crap. Quit getting peoples hopes up
and wasting money they dont have..............................http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/health/mult ... -1.4014494

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Leonard
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Re: CCSVI DEBUNKED

Post by Leonard » Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:11 am

no way this is just in people's minds. ccsvi is real and an important factor that may lead to MS.

the cascade from ccsvi to MS though is long. see also http://www.thisisms.com/forum/general-d ... ml#p245692

The story of Dr. Zamboni is almost anecdotal. As a young doctor, while he was stationed on the island of Sardinia, he diagnosed many young people with venous insufficiencies in the neck. Many years later, he was longst back on the Italian mainland, his wife developed MS. He went back to Sardinia and found that over 90% of the young people that he had diagnosed with vascular problems in the neck had developed MS. In a later study of almost epidemiological size (1600 subjects), Dr. Zivadinov et al (Bufallo, US) found a strong correlation between vascular narrowings in the neck and MS (85% MS vs 20% normal controls).

Neurologists want to own MS and people with MS. That is the problem. But the understanding of MS under the above link goes way beyond the neurology, across so many boundaries. We will need to force change in the system.

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Re: CCSVI DEBUNKED

Post by shadowfax » Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:58 pm

A clear majority of people do not benefit from this process. Some incur irrecoverable damage after repeating the surgery. It's clearly not causative and more likely a consequence of the disease. Are there some benefits yes for the minority. Restoring blood flow as it was intended is a health benefit. Is it stopping MS probably not because it isn't the cause. I'm happy for those that see some benefit but its more than likely you still have MS.

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Re: CCSVI DEBUNKED

Post by vesta » Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:43 pm

Greetings:
Ample evidence points to MS being a disorder of the fluid (blood, cerebro-spinal) circulation through the CNS. This current study shows that they don't understand the phenomena. It's easy to debunk a theory when it has been misdefined.

"So consider the factors. Is blood flow from the brain impeded by a venous stenosis (CCSVI)? Or does a dysregulated autonomic nervous system cause the smooth muscles of the vein to go into spasm, thus sending refluxed blood into the CNS? Will simple body tension cause the veins to seize up and impede blood flow, tension caused by emotional stress, the flu, toxins, food allergies? Has stress re-activated a dormant EBV Herpes virus lodged in the autonomic nervous system causing the veins to seize up in spasm? Is there a bone pressing on an otherwise healthy vein? Does cerebro-spinal fluid obstruction damage the axons, the spinal cord? Where is the principle obstruction to the free flow of CNS fluids? How should it be treated?"


Previously published on my site MSCureEnigmas.net

Best regards, Vesta

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Re: CCSVI DEBUNKED

Post by TeresaL » Sun May 14, 2017 2:35 pm

CCSVI procedure helped me but didn't last

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Re: CCSVI DEBUNKED

Post by jimmylegs » Sun May 14, 2017 4:02 pm

hi teresa i noted from past posts that your stents had restenosed, or that's what it looks like at a glance. had anyone tested your serum magnesium level in the past? the 1994 investigation into the value of magnesium vs restenosis has not come up on the forum for some years, not since 2011 i don't think. did your docs have it on the radar?
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!

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Re: CCSVI DEBUNKED: what is it then? chronic MS IJV stenosi

Post by 1eye » Sat May 27, 2017 3:28 pm

Jugular Anomalies in Multiple Sclerosis Are Associated with Increased Collateral Venous Flow. - PubMed - NCBI
NCBI
AJNR Am J Neuroradiol. 2017 May 25. doi: 10.3174/ajnr.A5219. [Epub ahead of print]
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1eye
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Re: CCSVI DEBUNKED: don't get liberated!?

Post by 1eye » Sat May 27, 2017 3:54 pm

People with clear conflicts, who take money for their "opinions", should be prevented from scaremongering and bullying MS sufferers on their own Internet forums, about proven science. This is especially true of people who like to stay anonymous. What's being hidden? Is there a Russian connection Is the White House/Kremlin involved? You can catch pike by trolling. Have you caught any lately?
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Re: CCSVI DEBUNKED: what is it then? chronic MS IJV stenosi

Post by NHE » Sat May 27, 2017 10:44 pm

1eye wrote:Jugular Anomalies in Multiple Sclerosis Are Associated with Increased Collateral Venous Flow. - PubMed - NCBI
NCBI
AJNR Am J Neuroradiol. 2017 May 25. doi: 10.3174/ajnr.A5219. [Epub ahead of print]

Here's the abstract...

Jugular Anomalies in Multiple Sclerosis Are Associated with Increased Collateral Venous Flow
AJNR Am J Neuroradiol. 2017 May 25.
  • BACKGROUND AND PURPOSE: To date, research on extracranial venous collaterals has been focused on structure, with relatively little attention paid to hemodynamics. We addressed this limitation by quantitatively comparing collateral flow in patients with multiple sclerosis and healthy controls by using phase-contrast MR imaging. We hypothesize that patients with MS with structurally anomalous internal jugular veins will have elevated collateral venous flow compared with healthy controls.

    MATERIALS AND METHODS: The sample consisted of 276 patients with MS and 106 healthy controls. We used MRV to classify internal jugular veins as stenotic and nonstenotic based on an absolute cross-sectional area threshold in 276 patients with MS and 60 healthy controls; 46 healthy controls lacked this imaging. Individual and total vessel flows were quantified by using phase-contrast MR imaging on all patients. Veins were classified by extracranial drainage type: internal jugular veins (I), paraspinal (II), and superficial (III). Differences among healthy controls, patients with MS, nonstenotic patients, and stenotic subgroups in total venous flow by vessel type were evaluated in a general linear model for statistical analysis.

    RESULTS: In the MS group, 153 patients (55%) evidenced stenosis, whereas 12 (20%) healthy controls were classified as stenotic (P < .001). Compared with healthy controls, the MS group showed lower type I flow and increased type II flow. Stenosis was associated with reduced flow in the type I vessels [F(1272) = 68; P < .001]. The stenotic MS group had increased flow in the type II vessels compared with the nonstenotic MS group [F(1272) = 67; P < .001].

    CONCLUSIONS: Compared with healthy controls, patients with MS exhibit reduced venous flow in the main extracerebral drainage vein (internal jugular vein). In contrast, flow in the paraspinal venous collaterals is elevated in patients with MS and exacerbated by venous stenosis. Collateral drainage may be a compensatory response to internal jugular vein flow reduction.

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Re: CCSVI DEBUNKED

Post by David1949 » Mon May 29, 2017 10:02 am

Maybe we need a comparison with the Mainstream drugs used for treating MS.

The drugs cost several thousand dollars per month http://www.healthline.com/health-news/m ... h-071913#1 That works out to $40,000-$60,000 per year.

The drugs will not cure MS. They may reduce the number of relapses an RRMS patient might have, but they will not cure MS.

The drugs are immune suppressants. Consequently they make the patient more susceptible to colds, flus, and other infections which can be very severe like PML. They may also increase the risk of certain cancers.

Until very recently there were no drugs for PPMS. This year the FDA approved the first drug for PPMS; Ocrevus. It is billed as a drug that reduces the progression of disability, but by only 24%. So any disability the patient might accumulate over a 4 year period would happen over 5 years with Ocrevus. While that is an improvement it's not exactly earth shaking.

In short the mainstream drugs cost a fortune, don't cure the disease, and can have serious side effects including death.

So you're wondering why people are willing to try alternatives?

CCSVI gave us hope and that's something we desperately needed.
It sounds like you want to take all hope away from us. In Dante's Inferno there is an inscription at the gates of Hell that reads "Abandon all hope ye who enter here." Is that what you want for us?

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Re: CCSVI DEBUNKED

Post by SeanReynolds » Mon May 29, 2017 3:02 pm

I'm not sure antibiotics are crap. CCSVI findings are not inconsistent with a CPn infection that pricks holes in blood vessels and causes an immune response that could well result in a narrowing of arteries and veins.

Also, a trial of inexpensive off-patent antibiotics is hardly breaking the bank compared with Lemtrada at $100K per year per treatment which may well do more harm than good, and similar random, speculative and expensive treatments with generally poor outcomes.

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Re: CCSVI DEBUNKED

Post by 1eye » Tue May 30, 2017 11:34 am

In short the mainstream drugs cost a fortune, don't cure the disease, and can have serious side effects including death.
There is no "cure". In the event there is not a cause found, there never will be a cure.

They have been lying about a cure "in the next five years" since I was diagnosed 20 years ago.

I felt great after my CCSVI treatment. I am progression-free. Improvements that didn't last were there for 2 years. Other improvements have lasted 7 years (till now).

Very glad I had the procedure.

What I would like to see is an MS classification by brain hemisphere. Much of the difference between symptoms in one patient versus another may be directly traceable to the affected hemisphere. Whether one hemissphere is affected versus the other may be directly connected to which jugular/azygus vein is affected.

FMRI can now be used to map deficits from MS, showing specific brain pathology to a high degree. Symptoms can be mapped and brain matter atrophy can be quantified, directly describing progression. These and many other areas are being ignored because the status quo "diagnose and adios" are profitable and reliable enough to keep neurologists decorating with Ansel Adams prints, buying Ferraris, and other signs of status.
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Re: CCSVI DEBUNKED

Post by 1eye » Tue May 30, 2017 11:41 am

Isn't it about time a longitudinal study was done of people treated for CCSVI to see if, compared to controls who never had venoplasty, they have progressed less?
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Re: CCSVI DEBUNKED: what is it then? chronic MS IJV stenosi

Post by 1eye » Wed May 31, 2017 4:36 pm

CONCLUSIONS: Compared with healthy controls, patients with MS exhibit reduced venous flow in the main extracerebral drainage vein (internal jugular vein). In contrast, flow in the paraspinal venous collaterals is elevated in patients with MS and exacerbated by venous stenosis. Collateral drainage may be a compensatory response to internal jugular vein flow reduction.[/list]
This finding is consistent with studies done by P. Zamboni using a tilt chair and plethysmography. I think the presence of stenosis encourages the growth of paraspinal collateral veins, as an expected result of hypoxia and/or anoxia. These collaterals may be a hallmark of MS. Certainly they are a hallmark of CCSVI.
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Re: CCSVI DEBUNKED

Post by 1eye » Thu Jun 01, 2017 7:43 am

My brother just sent me a link to a news story about minocycline. According to the test results, in people with CIS, it can discourage onset of MS.

That got me to thinking about CIS vs PP vs SP vs ??

I think all these categories are just sops to insurance companies (and our big Canadian one, the Federal Government) to allow drug vendors to be more specific about who qualifies for reimbursement. Reimbursement would not be necessary if it were not for the fact that the price of these drugs is astronomical and unaffordable. As with everything else, the low-hanging fruit is the most vulnerable people that can be found. In this case it's us pwMS.

If you can afford it, you can probably find a doctor who will prescribe it.

It's just as well. Since no-one is keeping track of the increase in evaporation due to "climate change", flooding will become a pandemic global problem. Insurance companies are likely to fail due to vast numbers of payouts, Maybe I should be shorting insurance companies...
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