Interesting Gut Microbiome results

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Luvsadonut
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Interesting Gut Microbiome results

Post by Luvsadonut » Mon Mar 27, 2017 4:30 am

I signed up for the American/British gut project last year and sent my sample for analysis in Oct. The idea being that I receive a breakdown of what type and how much certain tyopes of bacteria populate my gut. The theory being that I may find out that my gut is significantly different to other 'normal' (non-MS at least) samples. Well, I viewed my results online at the weekend and was happy to see that my bacteria seemed significantly different others. Whereas other people seem to follow a similar pattern of Firmicutes 50%, Bacteroidetes 40%, others (Proteobacteria, Actinobacteria, Verrucomicrobia..and a couple of others) 10%. The ineteresting thing with my results (MS for nearly 20 years) is that I have Firmicutes 20%, Bacteroidetes 10% but a massive 70% Verrucomicrobia.. As you can see the big difference is the Verrucomicrobia group .. I have 70% of thise little fellas whereas the other groups have less than 10%... This large number of Verrucomicrobia also has, obviously, a large (neagtive) effect on the percentage of other 'good'bacteria in my gut. The next questions are how this effects my body and also do other MS people have a similar large number of Verrucomicrobia?

So, have other peeps on here had their gut microbiome analysed? If so did they see a huge colonization of Verrucomicrobia?

Secondly what does Verrucomicrobia do (the actual genus is Akkermansia)? After a little searching Ive found that the presence of Verrucomicrobia may be elavted due to inflammation..makes sense... but did the inflammation cause a large number of Verrucomicrobia or did Verrucomicrobia set off inflammation?? Same old chicken an egg question, without answer I suppose... It allso apparently feeds on mucus of the gut wall lining, making the gut wall stronger, I think..not sure of the pros/cons of this. Its also apparently good for metabolosing fats, wiith some research inidicating it would be good to keep people from becoming fat or possibly by increasing Akkermansia it may mean people lose weight...

Also, I need to find out how my lower levels of other good bacteria (Firmicutes, Bacteroidetes) effect my body.

Thanks
Darren

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jimmylegs
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Re: Interesting Gut Microbiome results

Post by jimmylegs » Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:39 am

hey there, very interesting.
i have not had my gut microbiome analyzed but i did find this article documenting increased verrucomicrobia in mice on protein deficient diet:

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/c539/a ... 96006d.pdf

the protein aspect is interesting too, because when i was dxd i had been vegan for 15+ yrs and the nutritional protocol that a. made sense to me in terms of changing the status quo, and b. really worked for me was a modified klenner, which specifically emphasized high protein diet among other things.
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!

David1949
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Re: Interesting Gut Microbiome results

Post by David1949 » Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:05 am

That's good info. Will the results of the American/British gut project study be made public? Are they looking for correlations between various gut microbes and diseases? Seems like a great idea. How can one sign up for this project?

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Luvsadonut
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Re: Interesting Gut Microbiome results

Post by Luvsadonut » Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:03 pm

JimmyLegs...as always nothing easy as I follow a high protein diet so pretty contradictory to the mouse results...I need to try and google a bit more when I get a few free hours..

David, its easy to sign up - http://britishgut.org/ takes you to the homepage if youre UK based or if youre in the states try googling american gut project. I think the intention is to build up a Database similar to what the genome project did and eventually be able to map whats in our guts in the same way as we have been able to map genes and DNA over the last few years, exciting scientific research me thinks. Once signed up, you fill in a questionnaire which will help them group together individuals and compare their bacteria (microbiome) to others in the group and also compare groups etc. Once patterns are formed linking desieases, illnesses may become easier...fingers crossed. Once you send away your sample (stool or moth swab) it takes approx 6 months to get your results.....even if the results you receive aren't massively significant for yourself at least you can take comfort in thinking that your helping (in my opinion) hugely important medical research.

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Re: Interesting Gut Microbiome results

Post by jimmylegs » Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:19 pm

waaaaiiiit wait you're not a mouse? yea defs needs more large human study to figure out correlations if any. have seen a few studies looking at how food intakes alter the community of bacteria, but i think to date all have been in various critters. and not all even being of the single tummy variety i don't think.
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!

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Luvsadonut
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Re: Interesting Gut Microbiome results

Post by Luvsadonut » Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:50 pm

Squeeeek...I wish..if I was Id be cured by now.

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Re: Interesting Gut Microbiome results

Post by David1949 » Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:00 pm


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NHE
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Re: Interesting Gut Microbiome results

Post by NHE » Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:44 am

Luvsadonut wrote:I signed up for the American/British gut project last year and sent my sample for analysis in Oct. The idea being that I receive a breakdown of what type and how much certain tyopes of bacteria populate my gut. The theory being that I may find out that my gut is significantly different to other 'normal' (non-MS at least) samples. Well, I viewed my results online at the weekend and was happy to see that my bacteria seemed significantly different others. Whereas other people seem to follow a similar pattern of Firmicutes 50%, Bacteroidetes 40%, others (Proteobacteria, Actinobacteria, Verrucomicrobia..and a couple of others) 10%. The ineteresting thing with my results (MS for nearly 20 years) is that I have Firmicutes 20%, Bacteroidetes 10% but a massive 70% Verrucomicrobia.. As you can see the big difference is the Verrucomicrobia group .. I have 70% of thise little fellas whereas the other groups have less than 10%... This large number of Verrucomicrobia also has, obviously, a large (neagtive) effect on the percentage of other 'good'bacteria in my gut. The next questions are how this effects my body and also do other MS people have a similar large number of Verrucomicrobia?
So what do you do now? Take high dose probiotics and attempt to reboot your microbiome for example?

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Luvsadonut
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Re: Interesting Gut Microbiome results

Post by Luvsadonut » Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:18 am

Well the thing is that I was already taking high dosage probiotics, making/drinking kefir+kombucha, making sauerkraut, eating prebiotics (onions, garlic etc) but stopped them a few days prior to my sample so as not to get results based on the probiotics taken, this is because probiotics have a short term effect in your gut whereas prebiotics attempt to reorganize your gut in the longer term. I want to try and find out a way of linking my gut imbalance (possibly gut dysbiosis??) to my MS symptoms. Another avenue is to look at FMT, Ive contacted my local centre who does FMT and I will make an appoinment for a consultation, they have treated at least 1 other MS person with good results. All of this may lead up a dark alley but at least I have a set of results that seperate me form the norm..something to work on :)

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Re: Interesting Gut Microbiome results

Post by jimmylegs » Wed Mar 29, 2017 5:11 am

maybe there can be too much of a good thing? for sure i learned that the hard way after taking veganism too far for too long.. re small intestine bacterial overgrowth:

http://bit.ly/2niWr8y
Maintaining adequate nutritional intake, correcting nutrient deficiencies (particularly B12 and fat-soluble vitamins), and maximizing adequate digestion to avoid overfeeding the microbes are prime concerns for RDs working with clients with SIBO. ... encourage three to five hours between eating to allow the body’s cleansing actions to occur. Foods commonly maldigested, such as FODMAPs (an acronym used for a group of fermentable carbohydrates), may be minimized in the diet to avoid providing substrate for the microflora to overgrow and flourish. “A diet low in FODMAPs is important to starve off these microbes,” Mullin says.

Splenda has been shown to reduce beneficial gut bacteria in animal studies and increase fecal pH, so eliminating this sweetener from the diet may also be prudent.
http://www.med.monash.edu/cecs/gastro/f ... -high.html
High FODMAP foods
Vegetables
Asparagus, artichokes, onions(all), leek bulb, garlic, legumes/pulses, sugar snap peas, onion and garlic salts, beetroot, Savoy cabbage, celery, sweet corn
Milk and dairy
Cow’s milk, yoghurt, soft cheese, cream, custard, ice cream
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!

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Luvsadonut
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Re: Interesting Gut Microbiome results

Post by Luvsadonut » Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:11 pm

8O Not more food groups to consider!! 8O

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Re: Interesting Gut Microbiome results

Post by jimmylegs » Tue Apr 04, 2017 1:54 pm

not in the traditional sense, but ultimately ya i guess so!
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!

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Re: Interesting Gut Microbiome results

Post by Punchy » Sun Apr 09, 2017 11:26 am

I will be having bariatric surgery this year and have been researching its impact on the gut. From what I've read so far, it's mostly positive. If this could benefit my MS as well, that would be a double bonus.

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NHE
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Re: Interesting Gut Microbiome results

Post by NHE » Sun Apr 09, 2017 12:04 pm

Punchy wrote:I will be having bariatric surgery this year and have been researching its impact on the gut. From what I've read so far, it's mostly positive. If this could benefit my MS as well, that would be a double bonus.
There are multiple nutritional deficiencies that can result from bariatric surgery. The most obvious is a vitamin B12 deficiency which can cause neurological damage resulting in permanent disability. However, other deficiencies stemming from bariatric surgery also include folate, zinc, iron, copper, calcium and vitamin D.


Nutritional Deficiencies After Gastric Bypass Surgery
Seeniann John, DO, MPH; Carl Hoegerl, DO, MSc

http://jaoa.org/article.aspx?articleid=2093757
  • In 2008, more than 220,000 people in the United States had bariatric surgery.1 Interventions of this type generally fall into two categories: (1) gastric bypass, and (2) restrictive techniques (eg, gastric banding).

    Gastric bypass surgery is the most common form of bariatric surgery, while Roux-en-Y gastric bypass surgery is the most common gastric bypass procedure.1 During the procedure, a portion of the stomach is made into a small pouch and then attached to a distal segment of the small intestine, largely avoiding the duodenum and part of the jejunum.2

    In restrictive technique surgeries, a restriction is created near the fundus of the stomach to reduce the amount of food a patient can consume.3,4

    Although perioperative complications associated with gastric bypass surgery are generally low (<1%), the postoperative complications can be quite high.5 For example, because bariatric surgery often involves gut manipulation that alters the natural absorption of nutrients, nutritional deficiencies can develop. The most common deficiencies are vitamin B12, folate, zinc, iron, copper, calcium, and vitamin D and can lead to secondary problems, such as osteoporosis, Wernicke encephalopathy, anemia, and peripheral neuropathy.6

    To avoid such complications, dietary supplementation often begins shortly after surgery, while the patient is still in the hospital. However, adverse effects can develop months after the procedure. For example, patients may not be compliant with taking prescribed supplements, or physicians may become less diligent about monitoring patients for nutritional deficiencies.7 One study8 found that 3 years after gastric bypass surgery, even with multivitamin supplementation, as many as 50% of patients had iron deficiency, while nearly 30% had cobalamin deficiency.

    Physicians must be aware of potential deficiencies and typical patient presentations as well as prevention and treatment options. In the present review, we highlight some of the nutritional deficiencies that can arise after gastric bypass surgery if precautions and proper supplementation do not occur.

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Re: Interesting Gut Microbiome results

Post by David1949 » Wed May 31, 2017 9:51 am

Ok I got my results back today.
My Verrucomicrobia was only 4.58%. but there were other findings that were unusual.

Rare Taxa
This sample included the following rare taxa: Genus Varibaculum, Genus Neisseria, Genus Campylobacter, Unclassified Order ML615J-28.
This line shows four microbes that you have that are not commonly found in the type of sample you provided. Some other people may have them, but most people do not.


Also the following bacteria were found at levels many times higher than the general population;
Genus Clostridium ( 7x higher), Genus Finegoldia(17x higher) , Genus Prevotella(9x higher), Genus Collinsella(8x higher)

For the record I have PPMS - 21 years since Dx.

Also I've taken many antibiotics for various problems over the years. But these critters survived all of them.

BTW Luvsadonut what type of MS do you have?

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