lead poisoning

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1eye
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lead poisoning

Post by 1eye » Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:10 pm

Leaded gas stopped being sold in 1980. Until then it was poisoning everyone. See https://www.thenation.com/article/secret-history-lead/. There could be a direct link between this ban and the worldwide incidence of MS going *down*.

If ethyl lead had anything to do with causing MS, we could see a corresponding, sharp decrease in the incidence of MS, due to end of leaded gasoline.

See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Clean_Room

Unfortunately lead is still showing up in cities everywhere: https://www.vox.com/2016/1/21/10811004/ ... -cities-us.

People who worked for Samsung have been complaining of lead poisoning. It is especially bad in Flint Michigan because of the water there. That means there are large populations waiting for treatment.

I think because it is a heavy metal (so is mercury, so is gadolinium) gravity affects its progress from brain (where molecular mimicry is a factor) to brain stem, to neck, to spine. My gadolinium poisoning showed up in my toes.

Maybe acceleration can affect where it ends up in the body.

Blood transfusions and blood donations might make you feel better if gas chromatography showed you were replacing high with low levels of lead in your blood.

So take a look at wikipedia and see if anything looks familiar. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning
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Re: lead poisoning

Post by 1eye » Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:06 pm

I have to wonder why there has been no comment on this. I thought we had some very smart people here. Isn't anybody even curious about the predicted sharp decrease in the incidence of MS, due to end of leaded gasoline? Or do we not want to know?
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Re: lead poisoning

Post by jimmylegs » Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:41 pm

well, at the 'risk' of sounding like a faulty gramophone:

Dietary Strategies for the Treatment of Cadmium and Lead Toxicity (2015)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4303853/

re anticipated decrease, not sure what the broader findings might be:

Incidence and prevalence of MS in children
A population-based study in Ontario, Canada (2018)

http://n.neurology.org/content/91/17/e1579.abstract

"We used population-based administrative data to identify persons aged ≤18 years with MS. ... We applied 2 preferred case definitions to estimate the incidence and prevalence of MS from 2003 to 2014.
...
Depending on the administrative case definition used, in 2014, the annual age-standardized annual incidence of MS in the pediatric population ranged from 0.99 to 1.24 per 100,000 population, and the age-standardized prevalence ranged from 4.03 to 6.8 per 100,000 population. The prevalence of MS rose over time.
...
MS prevalence in the Ontario pediatric population is among the highest reported in pediatric populations worldwide."

(so, increasing, post leaded gas). yayyy. :S
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Re: lead poisoning

Post by NHE » Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:44 pm

1eye wrote:I have to wonder why there has been no comment on this. I thought we had some very smart people here. Isn't anybody even curious about the predicted sharp decrease in the incidence of MS, due to end of leaded gasoline? Or do we not want to know?
I had significant exposure to organic solvents in my late teen years and 20's while working at an auto shop. The lead angle is interesting. However, I'm more interested in the effects of solvent exposure, e.g., chronic solvent encephalopathy.

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Re: lead poisoning

Post by ElliotB » Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:26 am

"Or do we not want to know?"

Your theory sound as good as all the other ones that also sound good, but there is no way of knowing for sure.

Something to think about, MS was first diagnosed long before leaded gasoline was introduced (early 1900s).

According to the all wise all knowing internet, the first clearly recognizable case of multiple sclerosis appears to have been that of Augustus d'Este (1794–1848), although some historians believe that the first known documented case may go back to the 1300s.

You may be right but again, as I stated above, there is just no way of knowing for sure. Keep in mind that since the planet was first created, there have been toxic substances in both the air and water release through many natural events. A volcanic eruption, for example, puts carbon dioxide, sulfur dioxide, hydrogen sulfide, hydrochloric acid and carbon monoxide and more into the air. Underwater eruptions probably have similar characteristics. Cows naturally release tremendous amounts of methane and always have.

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Re: lead poisoning

Post by 1eye » Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:57 am

The attention of some of the best minds on ThisIsMS reassures me.

I think these arguments are too easy, though. I doubt you can conclude much about MS from the date of the first documents or case instances, since we are talking about tiny sample sizes. (About volcanic activity: it can protect against solar warming, and some believe the sulphur dioxide has caused ice ages. Did the recent Hawaii volcanoes have anything to do with their recent snow event?)

The method of finding this out is to find the large, abrupt inflection in disease prevalence corresponding to the abrupt changes in the laws governing leaded gas sales. A large question is how long it took to appear. Statistics Canada can probably do this, and should, for this and other diseases.

I have not read the paper on childhood MS, but if you have, was the time range large enough to see anything from 1980? Did they account for detection technologies like MRI being used? MRI makes things muddy because it started to be used around that time.
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Re: lead poisoning

Post by ElliotB » Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:17 am

" I doubt you can conclude much about MS from the date of the first documents or case instances"

You are correct, but based on what I know about MS from my family experienced which goes back about 60 years and all the research I do (a lot), a more accurate statement might be 'There is nothing you can conclude with absolutely certainty about MS'.

We can only hope that some of the theories we have are right!



I found this interesting article about the history of MS:
http://www.nationalmssociety.org/nation ... erosis.pdf

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Re: lead poisoning

Post by jimmylegs » Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:57 am

Atlas of Multiple Sclerosis 2013: A growing global problem with widespread inequity (2014)
http://n.neurology.org/content/83/11/1022.full


for more fun times, go to
https://www.msif.org/about-us/who-we-ar ... acy/atlas/
select epidemiology, prevalence, global
gooooooo canada :P

compare:

Countries That Still Use Leaded Gasoline
https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/cou ... oline.html

Rank Location
1 Algeria
2 Iraq
3 Yemen "Yemen has had a transition from using leaded gasoline and finally phased it out in 2011. "
4 Myanmar
5 North Korea
6 Afghanistan

from global ms atlas 2013 raw data

Country........Prevalence of MS
Algeria...........20
Iraq...............5
Yemen...........NOT KNOWN
Myanmar........NOT KNOWN
North Korea.....not in data set
Afghanistan.....not in data set

Canada..........291

the incidence map (i can't readily post) makes a solid case for genetics x latitude
and if you were wondering as i was about the apparent anomaly represented by brazil:

European Ancestry Predominates in Neuromyelitis Optica and Multiple Sclerosis Patients from Brazil (2013)
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/artic ... ne.0058925
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!

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Re: lead poisoning

Post by jimmylegs » Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:03 pm

Zn, Se, Cu, Pb and Neural Tube Defects (2004)

Table 1 (jl: simplified)
Maternal Zn, Se, Pb, and Cu Status in Women with (Cases) and Without (Controls) NTDs
.........................cases.............controls
zn (ug/dl).............62.................102
se (ng/ml)............55...................77
cu (ug/dl)............233.................207
pb (ng/ml)............59..................36

there's more detail about other nutrients' impacts on lead issues (in rats and mice) in "table 1 Selected studies on the protective effects of essential metals against Cd and Pb toxicity" of the article linked above.
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!

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