Ultimate outcome, expectation VS reality!

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Scott1
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Re: Ultimate outcome, expectation VS reality!

Post by Scott1 »

Hi Dim,
I'm not surprised.
For information, this is the FDA note.
https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/drugsatf ... 014lbl.pdf

and this may be of interest
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epd ... /ane.12839

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Re: Ultimate outcome, expectation VS reality!

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DIM: what dose of vitamins B are we talking about? And do you use ubiquinon or ubiquinol?

Scott1: are you saying at elast 300mg ubiquinon or ubiquinol?

5,000 IU vitamin D every other day is quite low. Normal human going out in the sun in shorts and short sleeves is making 20,000 IU easily in half an hour. Not to mention someone with MS may be highly resistant to vitamin D and may thrive on their bodyweight in kg times 1,000 IU or more a day. (Dr. Coimbra protocol, also found on this forum). But do take magnesium and B vitamins and avoid calcium at higher vitamin D doses.

I agree with Scott1: always test your values intracellularly, not in the blood serum.

Where can I find a list of "anti-EBV supplements"?
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Scott1
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Re: Ultimate outcome, expectation VS reality!

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Hi,

You can call it ubiquinol or ubiquinone. It doesn't really matter as it will flux between them. For simplicity's sake I just call it CoQ10. 300mg would be the minimum. Preferably it is in a soft capsule tocopherol (type of vitamin E) base.

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Re: Ultimate outcome, expectation VS reality!

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MisterSir wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 2:09 am DIM: what dose of vitamins B are we talking about? And do you use ubiquinon or ubiquinol?

Scott1: are you saying at elast 300mg ubiquinon or ubiquinol?

5,000 IU vitamin D every other day is quite low. Normal human going out in the sun in shorts and short sleeves is making 20,000 IU easily in half an hour. Not to mention someone with MS may be highly resistant to vitamin D and may thrive on their bodyweight in kg times 1,000 IU or more a day. (Dr. Coimbra protocol, also found on this forum). But do take magnesium and B vitamins and avoid calcium at higher vitamin D doses.

I agree with Scott1: always test your values intracellularly, not in the blood serum.

Where can I find a list of "anti-EBV supplements"?
This is the Jarrow B complex she takes 4 times the week but as her B12 is quite high she takes it 2-3 times for the last month:
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2600/ ... 1620699535
Generally Q10, I do know ubiquinol is better but more expensive too.
Regarding the 5000IU vitamin D3 (+K2) she takes, her D3 levels are at the upper limit so she hasn't resistance to D and no reason to increase her dosage I think.
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Re: Ultimate outcome, expectation VS reality!

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https://jcp.bmj.com/content/72/10/651.f ... YaJvuvy_T0
Anti EBV supplements


If you can't open the abstract due to firewall this is the summary.
Interesting ALL the anti-EBV supplements are beneficial to MSers either way:

Resveratrol (3,5,4′-trihydroxy-trans-stilbene) is a type of natural phenol called a stilbenoid, and a phytoalexin produced by plants as a response to injury or infection. Sources of resveratrol in food include the skin of grapes, blueberries, raspberries, mulberries and peanuts. Resveratrol prevents EBV transformation and inhibits the outgrowth of EBV-transformed B lymphocytes114 and EBV-infected BL cells.115 Resveratrol also inhibits EBV lytic cycle in BL cells through effects on multiple molecular targets.116

Luteolin is a flavone with a flavonoid 2-phenylchromen-4-one ring structure and has a yellow crystalline appearance. Luteolin has also been shown to significantly inhibit EBV reactivation by suppressing promoter activities of two immediate early genes, BRLF1 and BZLF1.117 It also reduces genomic instability and suppresses tumourigenic features induced by repeated EBV reactivation, suggesting that inhibition of EBV reactivation is a novel target to prevent NPC relapse.118 Luteolin is an effective free radical scavenger and inducer of tumour apoptosis119 and has been shown to have valuable anticancer effects.120 It is antiangiogenic, antimetastatic, anti-inflammatory and antioestrogenic, and regulates many signalling pathways.121 122 Luteolin has been shown to have profound antiviral properties.123 124 Natural sources include celery, broccoli, green pepper, parsley, thyme, dandelion, perilla, chamomile, carrots, olive oil, peppermint, rosemary, navel oranges and oregano.

Apigenin (4′,5,7-trihydroxyflavone) is a natural product of many plants. It has a yellow crystalline appearance and has been used to dye wool. Apigenin inhibits EBV reactivation through suppression of the activities of two immediate early EBV genes, BRLF1 and BZLF1.125 It is also a potent inhibitor of the enzyme CYP2C9, which metabolises many drugs in the body. It also activates monoamine transporters, is a weak anxiolytic and sedative, is a non-selective antagonist of all three opioid receptors, and may have an important pharmacological effect on the endocannabinoid system.125 Potential health benefits are stimulation of generation of neuronal cells, prevention of amyloid-β deposition and anticancer activity, related to its ability to suppress EBV reactivation.
Polysaccharide extract of the Chinese herb, Astragalus membranaceus, was shown to inhibit EBV reactivation in EBV-infected Raji cells in vitro. Astragalus polysaccharide extract in a non-cytotoxic concentration of 30 µg/mL significantly suppressed the expression of BZLF1, BRLF1 and EA-D during the EBV lytic cycle and is potentially useful as an anti-EBV drug.126

Epigallocatechin-3-gallate (EGCG) is one of the green tea polyphenols and has been shown to inhibit EBV replication127 through ERK1/2 and PI3K/Akt signalling in EBV+ cells,128 also involving downregulation of LMP1.129 EGCG also inhibits EBV LMP1-induced activation of nuclear factor-κB signal transduction pathways.130 EGCG has been shown to be a histone acetyltransferase inhibitor and inhibits EBV-induced B-cell transformation via suppression of RelA acetylation.131
Delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (Δ−9-THC) was shown to specifically target viral and/or cellular mechanisms required for replication of CMV and EBV, suggesting that the endocannabinoid system is possibly involved in regulating gamma herpesvirus latency and lytic replication. The immediate early gene ORF50 promoter activity was specifically inhibited by THC.132

L-arginine supplementation inhibited EBV replication in EBV+ cells through enhanced inducible nitric oxide synthase and increased nitric oxide generation. The expression of EBV EA, immediate-early BZLF1 mRNA and ZEBRA protein, and production of infectious virus were reduced by L-arginine supplementation in a dose-dependent manner.133
Sulforaphane is an isothiocyanate compound found in cruciferous vegetables (broccoli, brussel sprouts and cabbage). It is produced when the enzyme myrosinase transforms glucoraphanin, a glucosinolate, into sulforaphane on damage to the plant (such as from chewing), which allows the two compounds to mix and react. Sulforaphane has been shown to inhibit EBV reactivation in NPC cells, through inhibition of transactivation activity of the immediate-early EBV gene, BRLF1, but not BZLF1.134

Curcumin, a phenolic extract of the spice turmeric, has been used as a food additive for centuries and has potent anti-inflammatory, antivirus and antitumour properties. Curcumin has been shown to block EBV-induced B-cell immortalisation in a dose-dependent fashion with nearly complete inhibition at 20 µM.135 The mechanism of action is enhancement of apoptosis.136 Curcumin has also been shown to be an inhibitor of EBV BZLF1 in Raji DR-LUC cells.137
Baicalein is a bioactive flavonoid compound purified from the root of Scutellariae baicalensis (the flowering plant, Baikal skullcap), Scutellaria lateriflora (the flowering plant, blue skullcap), Oroxylum indicum (Indian trumpet flower) and thyme. It exhibits anti-inflammatory, immunosuppressive and antitumour properties. Baicalein inhibits the growth of EBV+ NPC cells by repressing the activity of the EBNA1 Q-promoter.138

(+)-Rutamarin is a topoisomerase II catalytic inhibitor which has been shown to inhibit the replication of EBV. It is obtained from the Ruta graveolens (Rue) plant. Herpesviruses require several cellular proteins for their lytic DNA replication including topoisomerase II. (+)-Rutamarin is effective in inhibiting EBV DNA replication and virion production with little adverse effect on cell proliferation, and therefore has potential to become a safe and effective drug for the treatment of human diseases associated with EBV infection.139 A variety of rutamarin derivatives also exhibit similar inhibition of EBV replication.


Add to the above Berberin (not for long term use), Laurinic acid, Artemisinin, Olive leaf extract etc
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DIM
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Re: Ultimate outcome, expectation VS reality!

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The same more or less apply to other herpesviridae, say Herpes Simplex (HHV-1), VZV (HHV-3) but not with HHV-6A where most of them are inactive:
https://hhv-6foundation.org/associated- ... -sclerosis

More medicinal plants and anti-EBV supplements:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6429425/
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Re: Ultimate outcome, expectation VS reality!

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DIM wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 11:00 pm https://jcp.bmj.com/content/72/10/651.f ... YaJvuvy_T0
Anti EBV supplements

Luteolin is a flavone with a flavonoid 2-phenylchromen-4-one ring structure and has a yellow crystalline appearance. Luteolin has also been shown to significantly inhibit EBV reactivation by suppressing promoter activities of two immediate early genes, BRLF1 and BZLF1.117 It also reduces genomic instability and suppresses tumourigenic features induced by repeated EBV reactivation, suggesting that inhibition of EBV reactivation is a novel target to prevent NPC relapse.118 Luteolin is an effective free radical scavenger and inducer of tumour apoptosis119 and has been shown to have valuable anticancer effects.120 It is antiangiogenic, antimetastatic, anti-inflammatory and antioestrogenic, and regulates many signalling pathways.121 122 Luteolin has been shown to have profound antiviral properties.123 124 Natural sources include celery, broccoli, green pepper, parsley, thyme, dandelion, perilla, chamomile, carrots, olive oil, peppermint, rosemary, navel oranges and oregano.
Among vegetables, radicchio has one of the highest luteolin contents.
NHE wrote:The following page lists luteolin content in various foods. It seems that radicchio has the highest content by an 8x factor over the next highest food, green bell peppers. The values are 38 mg/100 g for radicchio and 4.7 mg/100 g for green bell peppers.

37 Luteolin Rich Foods Ranked by Luteolin Density
https://myintakepro.com/blog/luteolin-rich-foods/

Note: Use this link to view an interactive chart. You can even download the data into your spreadsheet.
Luteolin is also found in peppermint tea.
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Re: Ultimate outcome, expectation VS reality!

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I wonder if the white chicons (witloof, Belgian endives) have a similar luteolin content as radicchio.
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DIM
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Re: Ultimate outcome, expectation VS reality!

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By the way I buy ours from https://5greens.co.uk/collections/our-products, the cheapest I found!
Among others Luteolin promotes remyelination as fisetin does too.
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Re: Ultimate outcome, expectation VS reality!

Post by Scott1 »

Hi,
I should add, if you want to take CoQ10 but you are on a blood thinner (ie warfarin) then consult your doctor. The CoQ10 will potentially make a blood thinner more potent and the dose may need to be adjusted.

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Re: Ultimate outcome, expectation VS reality!

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Influence of Viral Infection on the Etiology and Pathogenesis of Multiple Sclerosis
https://web.stanford.edu/~siegelr/rnorris.html

Possible Role of Human Herpesvirus 6 as a Trigger of Autoimmune Disease
https://www.hindawi.com/journals/tswj/2013/867389/
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