This Is MS Multiple Sclerosis Knowledge & Support Community

Hi everyone,

39 yo male here.
I starting experiencing constant dizziness/lightheadness in Apr 2015, went to see a nuero and had an MRI done on my brain in Sep the same year.
Was told by the nuero he could not find anything and the MRI was the best test possible.

Starting around Feb 2016, I started experiencing numbness and 'needles' on my scalp, arms and feet when I wake up.
Went back to the neuro, who repeated what he said in my earlier visit and ordered a carpel nerve test.
Again, nothing found.

Starting Aug 2016, I started to get tremors on hands, weakness on knees, and random muscle twitches all over my body.
Neuro once again said he didn't know what the problem was.
He did rule out Parkinson's though. Fustrating.

2 weeks back, I started experiencing bladder incontinence.
It's also causing me insomnia, haven't been able to sleep much in the last couple weeks.
Not sure if it's a separate issue or another symptom, but I'm going to see a different neuro for a second opinion.

I'm probably scaring myself here, but do my symptoms suggest that I have MS?

Thanks.

ps: Anyone else here also in Singapore?

hi i don't *think* anyone here is from singapore but i could be wrong!
my standard go to is, make sure you are meeting your daily nutritional needs, knowing that some or all of these are higher than average for athletes, vegetarians (for example will need to eat more mgs of zinc and iron, in proper food combos, since veg forms are less bioavailable), folks on certain meds (like PPIs), alcohol abusers, and so on.
at a bare minimum, you can make sure that nutrient deficit symptoms aren't messing with the info your doc is using to try and form a dx.
i was in a singing class with a girl from singapore and she said it was a culture shock here how much salad everyone was eating and that she was used to meat and rice period. what's your diet like?

Hello Jimmy,

My typical diet consists of fish/white meats for protein, rice or noodles for carbs, leafy veggies and fresh fruit.

I managed to see another nuero earlier today and he ruled out MS based on the MRI scan I had done in Sep 2015.
He did look at one my earlier bloodwork reports and felt that I have a lower than normal vitamin B12 level, and was given a B12 shot.
He does suspect some other nerve issue and is arranging for a nerve conduction test on my feet next week.

Cheers.

hi is it polished white rice, or brown?

good to hear the doc flagged the b12 issue for you. might be worth having a look at how your typical food intakes align with recommended daily requirements. to simplify, a good high quality multi could help top you up and address any potential gaps arising from food preferences.
i would suggest based on the twitching and insomnia that it might be worth upping your daily intake of magnesium.
here are some amounts per serving for magnesium in healthy food sources: http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... #foodchart (the volumes for dark leafy greens are based on their having been boiled for a minute or three depending on type)
for a guideline, ppl need 7-10 mg of magnesium, per kg body weight, per day.

this is a study in elderly ppl but the conclusions are worth a quick look:
http://jrms.mui.ac.ir/index.php/jrms/article/view/8839
"Supplementation of magnesium appears to improve subjective measures of insomnia such as ISI score, sleep efficiency, sleep time and sleep onset latency, early morning awakening and likewise insomnia objective measures as concentration of serum renin, melatonin and serum cortisol, in elderly people."

i don't think i have heard of a nutrition issue having much to do with incontinence specifically, unless it was perhaps related to an infection (in which case i would consider boosting antibiotic nutrients like zinc). if spasticity was at all involved, i would look at magnesium for that also. hard to say though.

Polished white. And thanks for the magnesium tip, I'll definitely explore that.

As for the incontinence, I had a urine test done by my GP and he didn't find any infection.
I was prescribed Potassium Citrade mix and Flaxovate which seems to help somewhat.

you may already be familiar with this piece of nutritional history related to polished rice:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2889456/

related info from the US:
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... e&dbid=128
"The complete milling and polishing that converts brown rice into white rice destroys 67% of the vitamin B3, 80% of the vitamin B1, 90% of the vitamin B6, half of the manganese, half of the phosphorus, 60% of the iron, and all of the dietary fiber and essential fatty acids. Fully milled and polished white rice is required to be "enriched" with vitamins B1, B3 and iron."
think they missed a few things there 7:\

not sure which of that page's listed references provided the milling nutrient loss info, but there's also this:

Effect of milling on mineral and trace element composition of raw and parboiled rice
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 8/abstract
"Percent losses of different nutrients on 5 and 10% milling of raw rice respectively were total ash 40, 62; iron 51, 67; magnesium 40, 64; calcium 36, 57; iron 54, 64; copper 26, 45; manganese 48, 56; molybdenum 24, 34; chromium 57, 69; and zinc only 2.8, 4.6. Zinc in rice grain was uniformly distributed and a major portion of other nutrients was concentrated in the outermost 2.5% surface layers of the grain."

after cooking, 100mg of brown rice contains 43mg of magnesium. white rice 12mg. over 70% of the magnesium just gone.
brown: http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/cer ... sta/5707/2
white: http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/cer ... sta/5712/2

do you know what the fortification requirements for milled rice are in singapore? personally growing up polished white rice was the only kind i knew. i never did bother to find out how they fortify it here, once i realized i just switched to brown rice for good.

re incontinence - interesting to discover, given my mention of zinc/infection and magnesium/spasticity above, that potassium citrate and flaxovate treat cystitis (ie infection) and spasticity respectively. i just sent a giant email off with cystitis nutrition info the other day.

excerpt:
"1. bacterial culprits:
Urinary Pathogens
Escherichia coli is the most common infecting organism in patients with uncomplicated UTIs.14 It causes 85% of community-acquired infections and approximately 50% of nosocomial infections. Other gram-negative microorganisms causing UTIs include Proteus, Klebsiella, Citrobacter, Enterobacter, and Pseudomonas spp. Gram-positive pathogens such as Enterococcus fecalis, Staphylococcus saprophyticus, and group B streptococci can also infect the urinary tract. Anaerobic microorganisms are frequently encountered in suppurative infections of the genitourinary tract (e.g., periurethral abscess, Fournier’s gangrene).

2. zinc contributes to immune system action vs gram positive and gram negative bacteria (e. coli is one of the gram negative beasties above).
Human peptidoglycan recognition proteins require zinc to kill both gram-positive and gram-negative bacteria and are synergistic with antibacterial peptides.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17312159
if you like oysters, eat em up http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=recipe&dbid=32

3. selenium is also active against gram positive and gram negative bacteria. this kind of study makes me laugh / roll my eyes PUT THE SELENIUM IN THE PEOPLE sheesh.
Inhibition of various gram-positive and gram-negative bacteria growth on selenium nanoparticle coated paper towels.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25926733
4 brazil nuts a day til you're sorted out (gets you almost 400mcg which is max daily intake), can keep it down to 1-2 a day for regular daily intake when healthy.
http://whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=btnews&dbid=18"

i also said antioxidant vits A C and E, plus anti-inflammatory omega 3s. oh, and probiotics as well bc in that case the person had been on round after round of abx trying to fight off the cystitis.

Not too sure what the fortification requirements are here, but thanks for all the nutrition tips.

Anyway, I had another appointment with my neuro and had a nerve conduction test and a tilt test (think that's what it's called, had a bunch of wires attached to my chest and told to lie/stand) done. Was told I have an autonomic disorder and given Pyridostigmine pills for a month.
Also saw a urologist and was given more flaxovate and Levofloxacin for a week.

I'm not too sure what to make of the future at this point.
Maybe I'm thinking too much, but I constantly worry if my symptoms will deteriorate.

hi again, this was the first result from a google scholar search on:
autonomic disorder nutrient

Effect of the defatted rice germ enriched with GABA for sleeplessness, depression, autonomic disorder by oral administration.
https://www.cabdirect.org/cabdirect/abs ... 0003000891
if you want any more detail than what's in the abstract I can see if I have access

and result 2 via regular web search:
Nutritional stimulation of the autonomic nervous system
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3198014/

that last one is a full text link. interesting, esp the section on 'NUTRITIONAL STIMULATION OF THE AUTONOMIC NERVOUS SYSTEM'. seems to have strong links to something else I found recently. it's under the cachexia topic I believe, if you're interested. zinc connection.

re your rx. the pyridostigmine piece looks like something to do with vit B6 ... oh interesting used to treat myasthenia gravis. the klenner protocol (old but with good elements) is supposed to have worked well on that, better than on ms I believe. it is heavy on the b vits, including pyridoxine (vit B6). search townsend letter klenner4 and you'll find the details. it talks a lot about injections but I had great benefits from an oral approach (using sublinguals where possible, to get things straight into the bloodstream).

if I had to fake klenner now, I would say high quality multi vit, high quality multimineral, b50 complex 4 times a day, e8 complex 4 times a day, nice high protein diet w added lecithin granules. it's not for long term use; more of a short term therapy. this routine made lots of sense to me based on the gaps in my previous diet. when I did my little fakey version of klenner I had amazing results in the middle of day three. my position sense came back and I could hold things without looking directly at them the whole time, type, play musical instruments again, was awesome. fascinating.

don't have time to dig into pyridostigmine in any more detail, but tried searching pyridoxine (vit b6) and pyridostigmine together, found these results, in which both together were used successfully to treat neuropathies induced by what looks like a chemo drug:
http://bit.ly/2jJ6NfM

flaxovate looks like muscle relaxant again, points to an opportunity to get more magnesium into the dietary routine. if nothing else, ensuring your mag is topped up should help you not to feel quite as worried or overwhelmed by the overall situation.

Levofloxacin = more quinolone abx, the relevant antibiotic/antiviral nutritional group would be antioxidants vits A C and E with selenium and zinc.
vit a: sweet potato, carrots http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... #foodchart
vit c: papaya, red pepper http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... #foodchart
vit e: sunflower seeds, spinach, chard http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... #foodchart
selenium: can take a couple brazil nuts each day to meet basic requirements, a couple more daily when fighting infection. also: http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?dbid ... #foodchart
zinc: oysters are good for this, also: http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... #foodchart

Hi hyien,

I can't give any thoughts on MS. Can you elaborate a little more on your initial dizziness? Was it strong or mild? And the scalp numbness, how did it feel?

Anyhow, I have had symptoms for one year now, and I recommend reading about Dr. Wheldon's story.

I have spent a lot of time and research on this, and I know there is something here, but don't know if it will help me, everyone, though I think the downside risk is pretty low.

http://www.davidwheldon.co.uk/ms-treatment.html

Good luck. Be persistent.