to add to jimmyleg's info/thiamine B1

Tell us what you are using to treat your MS-- and how you are doing.
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Sandrae
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Post by Sandrae » 9 years ago

jimmylegs wrote:hi sandrae, yep it's a pretty good deal when you can get it to work. helped me tons, even though it is missing some rather large pieces of the puzzle!
i only ever did a modified version (oral intake only, with no liver extract) but it was so worth it anyway.
what kind of results have you had so far, s?
JL
:D Thanx for responding jimmylegs .
"why only a modified version?" why or what made you do no liver extract?
I do the injection and all the maga vitamins..
I use a scooter and wheelchair inside as last year during Ontarios many heatwaves "my legs turned to jello a nd I fell on my face "OUCH" nice for tmy fathers day surprise to family to see me "black eye with my face bruised. (had to phone ahead to warm my father & family of how I looked)

How long have you had ms jimmylegs & how long on Protocol.
Was nice getting a response from you and Dale Humphry the same time. Love when Dale writes me.
I'll send my webpage... http://www.freewebs.com/reikigurlseb

gotta lay down and meditate........"my vision tires easy so save my from searching" how long with ms? how bad? how did protocol help? ttyl
Sandrae :wink:

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Post by jimmylegs » 9 years ago

sandrae and LR,

here's what i started with (this was shortly after dx in 2006) - the klenner oral treatment option:
...should a given patient's physician refuse to administer this schedule, I have this recommendation:
-One gram thiamin hydrochloride one hour before meals and at bed hour, and during the night if awake.
-Niacin taken at the same time, and in amounts sufficient to produce a good body flush.
-Two hundred mg. calcium pantothenate and
-100mg pyridoxine before meals and at bed hour.
-Ten grams ascorbic acid, taken in divided doses.
-Amino acetic acid: one heaping tablespoon in a glass of milk, four times each day.
Naturally, the full schedule will afford more dramatic response.
i modified the gram of thiamin to
Thiamin hydrochloride: 300mg to 500mg, 30 minutes before meals
and skipped the amino acetic acid from this short list (for no good reason, it just sounded gross) but added a few things from his larger set of recommendations:
4) Cobalamin (Vitamin B12): It is thought that vitamin B12 acts as a catalyst in the formation of the purine... 1000mcg. is given three times each week by needle (repository type)
(at one point i actually did purchase the injectable cobalamin and my naturopath was going to show me how to inject it myself. then i realized you could not get injectable methylcobalamin so i went to sublingual strips instead, and was on 1-2000mcg/d. the mention of purines goes to uric acid status in ms - zinc is another big part of that process)
7) Vitamin E ... 800 international units before meals and bedtime must be adhered to in this treatment.
(nowadays i know it should be E8 complex from natural food sources such as sunflower, but at the time i took d-alpha tocopherol as instructed - this is not something to do in the long term - i recently did a run of 800 IU per day and when i had some bloodwork i was way out the top end of the normal range)
11) Lecithin: ...is the lipid used in nerve tissue. We give 1200 mg. Soybean Lecithin after each meal.
17) High protein diet with two to three eggs for breakfast.
(like this one, but i was vegan before that so it freaked me out a bit to get back into eggs!)
the liver extract sounded a bit dodgy to me
8) Crude liver: This substance contains factors still unknown but essential in metabolism.
so i gave it a miss. now i would hypothesize that it's to do with uric acid status, which in my case has normalized via zinc supplementation so i don't feel i need liver extract.
also, i didn't know anything about minerals at the time so ignored the cal mag zinc advice. now i would say 1200mg cal, 600mg mag, and 50mg zinc (more if your level is below 18.2 umol/L), and a multivitamin/multimineral for good measure.

and of course now we know to keep the serum 25(OH)D3 in the 100-250nmol/L range.

i did this regimen for three days and went from having no position sense to being able to target objects and grip them, could type again, and play guitar again. i mainly thanked the b vitamins, but i have since learned that vitamin e has alot to do with position sense so it deserves some credit also.

i did not keep up the full klenner forever, but continued a scaled back daily set of supplements.

my hands were hypersensitive for some time and i paid the salon to wash my hair for me - couldn't deal with it. my walking slowly improved and i just got to a sort of plateau, but it's a pretty good plateau. since my dx attack i have had a few setbacks as mentioned, but i also got my level 2 ski instructor, and i never swam a kilometer before but now i can - just not very fast hehe!!

nowadays i do multivitamin/mineral, b-100 complex, C, fish oil, D3, cal/mag, mag by itself, zinc, iron, and selenium - plus i do have an e8 complex but i overdid the e thing recently - more on this here http://www.thisisms.com/ftopic-2489-165.html

so that's about where it's at!

sorry to hear about your injuries, s - terrible to have to deal with.

any questions, ask away - HTH,
JL

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Sandrae
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Post by Sandrae » 9 years ago

Hi that was interesting but more than my brain can absorb....I'd like to check out a mineral complez? and a larger intake of "e"...but I will stick to Klenner/Dale Humphrys(sp?) Protocol. since i've had some positives happen. I've never seen thiamine in pill form.
JL you sound like you r a "sponge for picking up all this info. "that's a compliment". so u never answered how long with ms and on protocol.

Sandra :)
[
quote="Sandrae"]
jimmylegs wrote:hi sandrae, yep it's a pretty good deal when you can get it to work. helped me tons, even though it is missing some rather large pieces of the puzzle!
i only ever did a modified version (oral intake only, with no liver extract) but it was so worth it anyway.
what kind of results have you had so far, s?
JL
:D Thanx for responding jimmylegs .
"why only a modified version?" why or what made you do no liver extract?
I do the injection and all the maga vitamins..
I use a scooter and wheelchair inside as last year during Ontarios many heatwaves "my legs turned to jello a nd I fell on my face "OUCH" nice for tmy fathers day surprise to family to see me "black eye with my face bruised. (had to phone ahead to warm my father & family of how I looked)

How long have you had ms jimmylegs & how long on Protocol.
Was nice getting a response from you and Dale Humphry the same time. Love when Dale writes me.
I'll send my webpage... http://www.freewebs.com/reikigurlseb

gotta lay down and meditate........"my vision tires easy so save my from searching" how long with ms? how bad? how did protocol help? ttyl
Sandrae :wink:[/quote]

LR1234
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Post by LR1234 » 9 years ago

Thanks JL for your response.
I have just added B1 300mg to my breakfast supplements to see how I get on. I might increase this to 2 meals and/or might add B3...not sure if I fancy the flushing though! I take quite a high dose of B12 10mg sublingual daily so maybe I will cut down on one of those in exchange for the other B's.

L x

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Sandrae
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Post by Sandrae » 9 years ago

LR1234 wrote:Thanks JL for your response.
I have just added B1 300mg to my breakfast supplements to see how I get on. I might increase this to 2 meals and/or might add B3...not sure if I fancy the flushing though! I take quite a high dose of B12 10mg sublingual daily so maybe I will cut down on one of those in exchange for the other B's.

L x
Hi Lx I'm a newbie here...JL sent this quote to me so I think he read my webpage :where I hesitated with Niacin until Dale Humphrey and a friend with ms said "do it theres a purpose for the flush.

I admit I looked like 'lobster woman when I took a whole pill"...I break it in 1/2 and take one in morn and one at dinner...But I admit since ms and pre-menopause hot flashes I some times whimp out & take a non flush Niacin. Dale says theres a purpose for the flush but I don't think he knows Gods purpose for giving women menopause :-(.

And I take a sub...B12 and 2 B100...I find Bs give me some energy along with the thiamine which is B too I believe..."I'm still asleep"

Oh I've been on the Klenner/Dale Humphrey MS Protocol for...starting 7 months this week. :D
Glad I found this site since I get no response from my webpage: MS Protocol...WANNABE A MIRACLE

Sandrae

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Post by jimmylegs » 9 years ago

hey there L, the thiamin sounds liks a good addition, and re: the niacin, do take it easy at first, 50mg first time, 100mg next, etc.
fyi if you have a fatty acid deficiency you won't flush no matter how much you take.
i believe the point of the flush is to open up those blood vessels and deliver a fresh burst of oxygen and nutrients to your cells.
you can actually get to enjoy the flush when you know it's doing you good. it has an equivalent effect to the statin drugs for cholesterol that some find useful in dealing with ms.
caution against taking too much for too long - it can be hard on the liver but i have not looked into at what doses over what time period. should be in some literature out there somewhere.

sorry about the name thing s, i was just going by your login name hehe!

here are the answers to those questions, extracted from the novel i posted before lol
here's what i started with (this was shortly after dx[diagnosis] in 2006)...

i did this regimen for three days...

i did not keep up the full klenner forever, but continued a scaled back daily set of supplements...

nowadays i do multivitamin/mineral, b-100 complex, C, fish oil, D3, cal/mag, mag by itself, zinc, iron, and selenium - plus i do have an e8 complex
further to the time issue, i will add that i had peripheral b12 deficiency lab results and symptoms (numbness in the feet, resolving with b12 supplementation) for a few years prior to dx and that the doctors ignored this pre-existing condition when they confirmed my ms diagnosis.

hope that helps - sandra the b100 2x/d might be a bit much in the long run. the b6 is one that can cause peripheral nerve damage (specifically in the hands i think) if too high OR too low. you could consider having that one tested.

hth!

JL (ps i'm a girl - the name's a seinfeld joke)

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Re:

Post by Kheuer » 1 week ago

katie45 wrote:
10 years ago
Jimmy...What form of B1 are you taking? Oral? I'm taking benfotiamine at present and starting im injections today when it arrives. Yes klenner's info is dated but if one looks for the logic it's there I believe(albeit simplistic) I don't think they expected any "layman reasearch" in those days(pre-internet) I too have regained some function and hope it continues improving...I still am dealing with severe lactic acidosis (very painful) I think I need to up my dosage. (about 410 mg/day right now) kathy
Fred Klenner he is an MS in Biochemistry, and an MD. He was not a layman by any means.

Nicotinic acid in the huge doses is one of the main reasons his protocol was so effective.

Nicotinic acid -- NOT NON-FLUSH niacin converts to NAD+ differently.

NAD+ reverts pro inflammatory T cells

"The impaired lysosome function in Tfam-deficient cells subverts T cell differentiation toward pro-inflammatory subsets and exacerbates the in vivo inflammatory response. Restoration of NAD+ levels improves lysosome function and corrects the inflammatory defects in Tfam-deficient T cells. "

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... =pmcentrez

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Re: to add to jimmyleg's info/thiamine B1

Post by Kheuer » 1 week ago

NAD+ reverses animal models of autoimmune diseases


https://www.prohealth.com/library/can-a ... very-86540

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Re: to add to jimmyleg's info/thiamine B1

Post by jimmylegs » 1 week ago

unpacking klenner protocol academic references (a decade after OP):
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=18561&hilit=klenner&start=75
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!

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