all things magnesium

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zen2010
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Re: all things magnesium

Post by zen2010 » Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:13 am

Hi,

re Mg: In August, I went from 500mg to 600mg (6*100mg tablets).

Few months before August I stopped taking D3 supplements. That was a mistake (my last blood test result showed I was deficient)
So I went to UI3000 daily with a first shot at UI13000 to catch up (I planned to go to UI4000/day but I finally went to UI3000)

So, no change since August:
-2*100 mg Mg tablet during breakfast
-2*100 mg Mg with UI3000 D3 at lunch
-2*100 mg Mg during dinner

I plan to take 2*100 mg Mg with UI3000 D3 during breakfast and nothing for the rest of the day.
What do you think?

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jimmylegs
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Re: all things magnesium

Post by jimmylegs » Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:30 am

hi that's great input.

what's the highest your d3 level has ever been?

do you have in your records, any history of serum d3 and serum mag levels taken at the same time?

re next steps, i place much stock in the pharmacist's long ago, wise, and profoundly effective advice, which was (as paraphrased above, with additional emphasis now added)

1. take half of daily supplemental magnesium with the day's supplemental vit d3
2. take the other half of daily supplemental magnesium well away from supplemental vit d3.


the rational for that divided approach is this:
one half of daily mag is monopolized by d3 interactions
the other half is then available to your body, without d3 interference, for its hundreds of other vital interactions.

if frustration comes through, it's because i have posted that timing nuance a thousand times if i've posted it once :S
as you've said, memory is a factor in your case. let's call lack of patience a factor in mine ;)

so with all that said, what do you think i will think of your proposed plan?
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!

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zen2010
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Re: all things magnesium

Post by zen2010 » Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:27 pm

jimmylegs wrote:
1. take half of daily supplemental magnesium with the day's supplemental vit d3
2. take the other half of daily supplemental magnesium well away from supplemental vit d3.


the rational for that divided approach is this:
one half of daily mag is monopolized by d3 interactions
the other half is then available to your body, without d3 interference, for its hundreds of other vital interactions.
Well, I guess this is the key thing to remember
jimmylegs wrote: if frustration comes through, it's because i have posted that timing nuance a thousand times if i've posted it once :S
as you've said, memory is a factor in your case. let's call lack of patience a factor in mine ;)
I understand. Sorry again
jimmylegs wrote: so with all that said, what do you think i will think of your proposed plan?
As mentionned above, the key thing is to figure out the amount of Mg I take from food.
Once this is done, I will take D3 supplement with half daily Mag as adviced (I might decrease D3 amount to UI 2000)
As I said to NHE few minutes ago, it's not that easy to tweak Mag:D3 ratio (it has to be adjusted continuously, depending on food source)

Cheers

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Re: all things magnesium

Post by jimmylegs » Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:28 am

it's a very very good idea to understand your dietary mag intake.
food sources should always come first, and supplements should be used to top up.
food comes with built in cofactors. supplements in isolation can throw natural proportions right out of whack.
there are many online templates for professionals' three day diet diaries. once you have one of these in front of you, you can look at it one nutrient at a time and understand how your status quo routine contributes to your daily needs.
after contributions from food. the next most important consideration is antinutrient influences. in the case of magnesium, that means things like PPI drugs, alcohol, physical mental or emotional stress (including exercise), and as i've recently learned, chemo drugs - specifically paclitaxel (taxol). and of course, how much vitamin d3 is taken.

re your earlier plan above,

-2*100 mg Mg tablet during breakfast
-2*100 mg Mg with UI3000 D3 at lunch
-2*100 mg Mg during dinner


when you drop back to half your supplemental mag away from d3 (with a possible drop in d3 intake as well) since with 100mg pills you can, it's probably a good idea to keep the additional 100mg doses divided. likely better for absorption purposes.

i am still curious re past serum mag and serum d3 taken together so went hunting for them myself.

found these:

january 2018
-Calcium: 2.41mmol/L
-Magnesium: 0.81 mmol/L
-25-OH D3 Vit: 82.2 nmol/L

any more recent dates and levels handy? you mentioned deficient d3 recently. what was the serum mag at that time???
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!

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Re: all things magnesium

Post by jimmylegs » Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:49 am

i've just realized it's in your blood test results topic, that we've spent so much time recently tweaking details of diet. your online notes will make it easy for you to evaluate magnesium intake. i have to say that i've never thought your routine looked particularly magnesium heavy to my eye. but, you've been working on basic dietary diversity of fruits, veg, grains and protein. digging deeper on specific nutrients has always seemed more like a next step. maybe now is the time :)
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!

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zen2010
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Re: all things magnesium

Post by zen2010 » Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:39 am

jimmylegs wrote: found these:

january 2018
-Calcium: 2.41mmol/L
-Magnesium: 0.81 mmol/L
-25-OH D3 Vit: 82.2 nmol/L

any more recent dates and levels handy? you mentioned deficient d3 recently. what was the serum mag at that time???
Most recent update from July 2018:
-Magnesium: 0.89 mmol/L (0.81 mmol/L Last January)
-25-OH D3 Vit: 60.9 nmol/L (82.2 nmol/L Last January) - at that time, Mg intake was 600mg/day

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Re: all things magnesium

Post by jimmylegs » Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:02 am

ok and with no d3 intake at that time.
so either food intakes at the time plus 600mg via supplements does not meet your individual needs, or one or more factors are hampering absorption.
let's start with low hanging fruit. we may have covered this already, but can you post a link to your magnesium brand and product?
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!

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zen2010
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Re: all things magnesium

Post by zen2010 » Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:30 am

jimmylegs wrote: can you post a link to your magnesium brand and product?
https://www.purepara.com/en/mineraux/25 ... 07000.html
My favorite brand :wink:

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Re: all things magnesium

Post by jimmylegs » Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:20 pm

ah yes i think i have seen that one before. looks like it should be good!
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!

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2000 study: magnesium vs neuropathic pain

Post by jimmylegs » Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:07 pm

The Safety and Efficacy of a Single Dose (500 mg or 1 g) of Intravenous Magnesium Sulfate in Neuropathic Pain Poorly Responsive to Strong Opioid Analgesics in Patients with Cancer
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 2499001359

Abstract
Neuropathic pain may respond poorly to morphine and is often difficult to relieve. Recent attention has been drawn to the role of the N-methyl-d-aspartate (NMDA) receptor in the potentiation of neuropathic pain. Magnesium is known to block the NMDA receptor. It reduces the neuropathic pain response in animals, and attenuates postoperative pain and migraine in humans. We have examined the safety, tolerability, and efficacy of two intravenous doses of magnesium sulfate in 12 patients with neuropathic pain due to malignant infiltration of the brachial or lumbosacral plexus. The first six patients received 500 mg, the remainder 1 g. Apart from a mild feeling of warmth at the time of the injection, both doses were well tolerated. After receiving 500 mg, three patients experienced complete pain relief and two experienced partial pain relief for up to 4 hours duration; pain was unchanged in one patient. After receiving 1 g, one patient experienced complete relief and four experienced partial pain relief of similar duration; pain was unchanged in one patient. Intravenous magnesium sulfate in these doses appears to be safe and well tolerated. A useful analgesic effect may be obtained in some patients and further evaluation is warranted.
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!

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Magnesium Metabolism - Intracellular Content & Serum Levels

Post by jimmylegs » Sat Nov 24, 2018 2:03 pm

Magnesium Metabolism
A Review With Special Reference to the Relationship Between Intracellular Content and Serum Levels


interesting excerpt:

"FUNCTION OF MAGNESIUM IN METABOLIC PROCESSES

Role in the Evolutionary Process


Aikawa postulated that 3.5 billion years ago the Mg+ + ion combined with porphyrin rings, owing to the chelating properties of Mg+ +, forming chlorophyll. Formation of the chlorophyll molecule made photosynthesis, and therefore an oxygen-rich environment, feasible. Magnesium in thechlorophyll molecule is essential for the process of capturing photons from the sun and converting them to adenosine triphosphate (ATP). The Mg-porphyrin complex, excited by the sun, is capable of undergoing reversible photochemical oxidation or reduction, ie, accepting or donating electrons between partner molecules. This process leads to the formation of ATP and oxygen; both are necessary for the next higher step in the evolutionary process, oxidative phosphorylation.3
Geologic evidence suggests that as oxygen was formed by the photosynthetic process, the iron in the oceans, initially in the ferrous state, reacted with the oxygen formed by the photosynthetic process and precipitated in the ferric state, forming rusty layers on the ocean floor.4
As this process of precipitation was completed, oxygen was released into the atmosphere, setting the stage for oxidative phosphorylation—a process that utilizes oxygen and a variety of substrates to produce ATP more efficiently than can photosynthesis.

Role in Metabolic Functions

In addition to its central function in photosynthesis, Mg+ * participates in many of the biochemical reactions that take place in the body, particularly in those processes involving the formation and utilization of ATP. Metals are cofactors required in approximately two thirds of all enzymatic reactions in the body. Magnesium participates in such reactions through its ability to form a chelate, ie, an organometallic coordination complex. ..."
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!

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