General Nutrition/MS Research

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Zyklon
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Re: 2018 review: vitamins & MS incidence,progression,improve

Post by Zyklon » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:10 am

Great article. I am interested about remyelination effects of vitamins.

Gonna read this:

M. Goudarzvand, M. Javan, J. Mirnajafi-Zadeh, et al.
Vitamins E and D3 attenuate demyelination and potentiate remyelination processes of hippocampal formation of rats following local injection of ethidium bromide
Cell. Mol. Neurobiol., 30 (2010), pp. 289-299, 10.1007/s10571-009-9451-x
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NHE
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Re: 2018 review: vitamins & MS incidence,progression,improve

Post by NHE » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:09 am

Zyklon wrote:Great article. I am interested about remyelination effects of vitamins.

Gonna read this:

M. Goudarzvand, M. Javan, J. Mirnajafi-Zadeh, et al.
Vitamins E and D3 attenuate demyelination and potentiate remyelination processes of hippocampal formation of rats following local injection of ethidium bromide
Cell. Mol. Neurobiol., 30 (2010), pp. 289-299, 10.1007/s10571-009-9451-x
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19768531

Unfortunately, the abstract doesn't indicate what type of vitamin E was used.

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jimmylegs
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Re: 2018 review: vitamins & MS incidence,progression,improve

Post by jimmylegs » Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:24 pm

nor in full text via research gate. product info pretty vague. company catalogue:
https://www.dsm.com/content/dam/dsm/anh ... 015-16.pdf
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!

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jimmylegs
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2018 review: evidence for diet & supplements in MS

Post by jimmylegs » Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:51 am

The Evidence for Dietary Interventions and Nutritional Supplements as Treatment Options in Multiple Sclerosis: a Review
https://link.springer.com/article/10.10 ... 018-0494-5

"Abstract
Purpose of review
This review aims to critically evaluate published studies examining diets and nutritional supplements (excepting vitamin D) for the impact on prevention and prognosis of multiple sclerosis (MS).

Recent findings
There is a negative relationship between the Mediterranean diet and vascular disease, and vascular co-morbidities are associated with a worse MS prognosis. Low-fat, fish-based diets, sodium-restricted diets, calorie restriction, the paleo diet, and gluten-free diets have been examined, mostly in observational studies; results are inconclusive. With regard to nutritional supplements, pilot data show a possible benefit of biotin with respect to disability worsening in people with progressive MS (PMS). The best designed randomized controlled trials (RCTs) for PUFA supplementation have not shown significant impact, but several weaker RCTs have. Many other nutritional supplements have been tested, including several anti-oxidants. While some early studies show positive results, no result has been definitive.

Summary
Unfortunately, there is no strong evidence for a direct benefit of any given dietary intervention on MS risk or prognosis. However, due to its relationship with vascular co-morbidities, the Mediterranean diet has the strongest rationale for employment in PwMS. Higher-quality clinical trials are needed to ascertain the possible benefits of nutritional supplements."

agree. some serious gaps in the literature, and at least one in this review as well (not talking about the omission of d3 in the analysis)...
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!

ElliotB
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Re: 2018 review: evidence for diet & supplements in MS

Post by ElliotB » Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:48 am

"Unfortunately, there is no strong evidence for a direct benefit of any given dietary intervention on MS risk or prognosis."

Really? So many would disagree with this finding. I certainly do!

Sounds to me like the study is flawed. And why would they omit vitamin D as one of the supplements used which is likely of benefit to those who are healthy and ill most? And what were the other supplements taken?

And yet with all this they conclude the Mediterranean Diet has the strongest rationale for employment in PwMS. So many would also disagree with this finding too. I definitely do! And why would they recommend any diet if their conclusion of their study is that "there is no strong evidence for a direct benefit of any given dietary intervention"?

It is so easy to manipulate the results of these so called scientific studies and this one is a classic example!

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jimmylegs
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Re: 2018 review: evidence for diet & supplements in MS

Post by jimmylegs » Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:48 am

access to full text does make a difference. if you have access, perhaps as an alumnus of any subscribing academic institution, have a read :)
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!

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jimmylegs
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2018 review: MS Patients' Use of Vitamins & Supplements

Post by jimmylegs » Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:08 am

can't get into full text for this one, so no opportunity to critique as yet:

Use of Vitamins and Dietary Supplements by Patients With Multiple Sclerosis
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamane ... ct/2679039

Abstract
Importance Surveys of patients with multiple sclerosis report that most are interested in modifying their diet and using supplements to potentially reduce the severity and symptoms of the disease. This review provides an updated overview of the current state of evidence for the role that vitamins and dietary supplements play in multiple sclerosis and its animal models, with an emphasis on recent studies, and addresses biological plausibility and safety issues.

Observations Several vitamins and dietary supplements have been recently explored both in animal models and by patients with multiple sclerosis. Most human trials have been small or nonblinded, limiting their generalizability. Biotin and vitamin D are currently being tested in large randomized clinical trials. Smaller trials are ongoing or planned for other supplements such as lipoic acid and probiotics. The results of these studies may help guide clinical recommendations.

Conclusions and Relevance At the present time, the only vitamin with sufficient evidence to support routine supplementation for patients with multiple sclerosis is vitamin D. Vitamin deficiencies should be avoided. It is important for clinicians to know which supplements their patients are taking and to educate patients on any known efficacy data, along with any potential medication interactions and adverse effects of individual supplements. Given that dietary supplements and vitamins are not subject to the same regulatory oversight as prescription pharmaceuticals in the United States, it is recommended that vitamins and supplements be purchased from reputable manufacturers with the United States Pharmacopeia designation.
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!

ElliotB
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Re: 2018 review: MS Patients' Use of Vitamins & Supplements

Post by ElliotB » Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:15 am

"the only vitamin with sufficient evidence to support routine supplementation for patients with multiple sclerosis is vitamin D"

Really? Many professionals would not agree with this finding. There is so much evidence to the contrary.

David1949
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Muscle Spasms & Nutrition - from magnesium to vitB3 to vitB1

Post by David1949 » Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:08 pm

split from general discussion:

Jimmylegs
... I have a closet full of minerals, herbs and vitamins I've tried because someone said they help with MS. I've also tried all kinds of diets which purportedly help MSers. I even had a catheter run up my veins and an angioplasty balloon inflated in my jugulars at a cost of thousands of dollars. All of these things were to no avail. Other folks have taken DMDs that cost $50 grand per year and offer no hope of a cure. Medical science doesn't have a clue about curing MS, but they can charge you a fortune for something that does little or no good...
Dave

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jimmylegs
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Re: Muscle Spasms & Nutrition - from magnesium to vitB3 to v

Post by jimmylegs » Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:35 am

hi david, a few questions if i may :)
1. have you got your most recent (no worry how long ago it was) bloodwork panel for the key nutrients of concern to ms patients?
2. have you previously shared nutrient related bloodwork results on the forum, for review?
3. have you been referred to a registered dietitian?
4. when trying nutrient products, what were the symptoms you were looking to improve?
5. which nutritional (not herbal) supplements had you tried?
6. what specific products, forms, doses and serving sizes were involved? devil is often in the details...
7. in each case, was your serum response to the increased intake measured?
8. were there any absorption challenges eg due to things like cofactors, combinations and/or timing of supplement intake?
9. if yes, in the spirit of adaptive managment were any regimen modifications implemented?
10. today, are you confident that your bloodwork for nutrients of concern for patients with ms is a match for healthy control levels as documented in the scientific literature?

regards,
fellow (former) engineering/building science technologist type

ps. perhaps i can interest you in my 'zapper', built by a well-meaning mechanical engineer (nuclear energy) of my acquaintance. :twisted:
https://www.drclarkinfocenter.com/en/te ... is3254.php
(and incidentally, the same family friend who directed my attention to TiMS in the first place...)
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!

David1949
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Re: Muscle Spasms & Nutrition - from magnesium to vitB3 to v

Post by David1949 » Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:11 am

Jimmylegs
In answer to your questions:
1. I've had blood work done in the past 5 years. Most results were in the normal range. What nutrients are you looking for?
2. no
3. no
4. I have great weakness in the left leg and very poor balance. I can still walk with my cane and foot brace but not very far. I also have trouble with muscle spasms at night. Fixing any of those symptoms would be great. I have PPMS so I don't have relapses.
5. Cod liver oil, Vitamin a, b, c, d, e, magnesium, calcium, potassium, selenium
6. Don't remember
7. Response was not measured.
8. Don't know
9. no
10. no

PS I read Dr. Hulda Clark's book just before she was arrested. Never built the zapper though. Judging by your emoticon I guess it didn't help you. :-)

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jimmylegs
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Re: Muscle Spasms & Nutrition - from magnesium to vitB3 to v

Post by jimmylegs » Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:31 am

ooh info, i like :)
1. excellent.
i look askance at normal results, since there are distinct separate clusters of patients and healthy subjects within normal ranges.
would be good, if available, to have a closer look at
serum vit b12, serum vit d3, also serum magnesium, serum copper and serum zinc pls.
nice to have but not need to have: serum uric acid.
i'm assuming there will be standard evaluations of things like serum ferritin and serum electrolytes such as calcium, potassium etc in the past bloodwork mix as well - those can be good to know too.
2. feel like sharing any now?
3. ok no dietitian to date, assuming you have never completed a three day diet diary to date, would you?
for analytical purposes, these should read more like lists of recipe ingredients than menu items.
4. weakness, balance and spasms all sound like elements worth taking a closer look at nutrient status
5. nice start on the regimen list. if you still have things kicking around in a cupboard, some fine details for each could be informative.
6. do you take any of those currently? here's an example of the kind of info i look for (this is for one of the mag products i use):
magnesium glycinate, by orange naturals, 200mg per serving, serving size 1 powder capsule.
i take this product every time i take any vit d3, and then i take another one (or similar eg mag citrate) well away from the d3
7. tsk tsk. i'm not a fan when research says 'hmm that didn't do anything' but you can't see if the approach they tried was successful at moving subjects' levels out of the 'patients' section of the normal range in question, and into the 'healthy controls' portion of that same normal range.
8. understandable that absorption issues -if any- were unknown, given the absence of monitoring
9 and 10. these are things you may be able to change, if so inclined.

checking any existing bloodwork results you may have on file, for items on the list of nutrients described in item 1 above, will be a good start :)

i've never used the zapper myself, but it's still kicking around the house here
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!

David1949
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Re: Muscle Spasms & Nutrition - from magnesium to vitB3 to v

Post by David1949 » Thu Jul 05, 2018 2:46 pm

Jimmylegs
I assume you are doing these things. May I ask how you're doing physically? Also what type of MS do you have and how long have you had it?
Dave

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jimmylegs
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Re: Muscle Spasms & Nutrition - from magnesium to vitB3 to v

Post by jimmylegs » Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:54 am

hi david

i don't use any gadgets or equipment other than standard fitness or physiotherapy stuff.

i have some permanent limitations. largely sensory. some nerve roots are just dead, no amount of nutrition will bring them back now - i missed that boat.
i'm out of shape at this end of five years on desk work after a knee injury. with physical exertion, am still finding i need plenty of breaks or help if i push myself too hard.

i have had an rrms dx for 12 yrs, symptoms for much longer prior to dx. working with my docs since dx i've investigated, identified and corrected a slew of nutrient issues. when i do essential nutrition right, i get my own personal best case scenario. if i drop the ball, i pay the price!
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!

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jimmylegs
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2018 review: Nutrient Interactions with Chronic Rx Use

Post by jimmylegs » Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:37 am

Evidence of Drug–Nutrient Interactions with Chronic Use of Commonly Prescribed Medications: An Update
fft: http://www.mdpi.com/1999-4923/10/1/36/html

Conflicts of Interest
Diane L. McKay is a member of the Nature’s Bounty, Co. Scientific Advisory Council. Hua J. Kern is an employee of the Nature’s Bounty, Co. Susan H. Mitmesser was an employee of the Nature’s Bounty Co. when the work was performed.

Abstract:
The long-term use of prescription and over-the-counter drugs can induce subclinical and clinically relevant micronutrient deficiencies, which may develop gradually over months or even years. Given the large number of medications currently available, the number of research studies examining potential drug–nutrient interactions is quite limited. A comprehensive, updated review of the potential drug–nutrient interactions with chronic use of the most often prescribed medications for commonly diagnosed conditions among the general U.S. adult population is presented. For the majority of the interactions described in this paper, more high-quality intervention trials are needed to better understand their clinical importance and potential consequences. A number of these studies have identified potential risk factors that may make certain populations more susceptible, but guidelines on how to best manage and/or prevent drug-induced nutrient inadequacies are lacking. Although widespread supplementation is not currently recommended, it is important to ensure at-risk patients reach their recommended intakes for vitamins and minerals. In conjunction with an overall healthy diet, appropriate dietary supplementation may be a practical and efficacious way to maintain or improve micronutrient status in patients at risk of deficiencies, such as those taking medications known to compromise nutritional status. The summary evidence presented in this review will help inform future research efforts and, ultimately, guide recommendations for patient care.

Table 1 Summary of potential drug–nutrient interactions and known risk factors.
http://www.mdpi.com/1999-4923/10/1/36/h ... 00036-t001

5. Conclusions
When managing drug–nutrient interactions, it is essential to consider the strength and quality of the available evidence. Even though the importance of these interactions has long been recognized, appropriately designed observational and intervention studies examining the role of dietary intervention and/or supplementation in ameliorating the effects of chronic medication use are lacking. The summary evidence presented in this review will help inform future research efforts and, ultimately, guide recommendations for patient care.

so glad i read up early, on the nexium my doc had given for my lab-verified GERD cough. i was trying to improve my nutrient status, not deplete it thanks!

also so glad i finally realized it was the bedtime/empty stomach magnesium bisglycinate that was relaxing my LES and was the root of all the GERD trouble anyway. mag form and timing change, end of problem. buh bye, nexium.

i look forward to the days when preventive is the main public-funded health care mechanism. the stitch in time approach is loooong overdue.
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!

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