Broccoli, kale, and blood

[tzootsi]

It's pretty much a no-brainer that veggies like broccoli, kale, swiss chard, and spinach are very good for you. In fact Dr. Wahl's ms regimen calls for lots and lots of them in your diet since they benefit mitochondria. However, these veggies are loaded with vitamin K, the blood clotting vitamin. I wonder if eating them after stents were put in might not be a good idea.?

[Cece]

http://www.thisisms.com/ftopicp-100016.html#100016

Dr. Sclafani and the post below his, zinamaria, both talked about vitamin K.

(edited because I saw that coumadin was not part of the question )

[blossom]

all this stuff is so hard to figure at least for me anyway. don't get me wrong, i'm not brain dead here but when it comes to some things it's kinda like a person is damned if you do and damned if you don't. "as always i maintain that whatever i got started with a fall "trauma". but still you want to watch what you eat, try to stay healthy etc. so, there's this diet there's that diet and so on. dr.'s wahl's protocol is working for her and some others and it stresses eat lots and lots of kale , cabbage etc. that's easy for me and i do. thinking it's healthy-which it is----

then off to albany aug. 3 get treated "no stents" put on plavix-come home with numb leg but some small other small improvements. i'm eating kale, cabbage, broccli all the healthy stuff.

then due to an emergency surgery 15 days ago "my appendix decided to go gangreen on me" which about did me in-and really played a number on any help i was expecting from albany treatment-i'm in the hosp. on blood thinners and not allowed any broccli, greens,cabbage etc. because it helps the blood to clot.

here i am worried i may have a clot because of the numbness in leg after procedure and i'm stuffing my face with all this "healthy stuff" never thinking i may be doing more harm than good.

should i avoid this stuff? i'm home now off the coumadin-back on plavix. the dr.'s did not tell me to not eat any certain things when released.

i have always been in pretty good health other than i can't blanking move and since the angioplasty i am concerned about clotting.

so, has anyone come home from getting treated with a specific diet? we are all put on blood thinners one type or other. should we all be avoiding high vit k? should they be telling us to? then is the rest of whatever health gonna collapse?

i did not know or realize about vit k's danger in all this. probably i should have but didn't.

so, kinda damned if you do and damned if you don't. my brain is kinda feeling bruised and tired. ccsvi and what all it is bringing to the table of ms like ctos, dr. flanagan etc. i just know this is all gonna add up to a "real reason and cure" for ms.

i'd do it all again, and though some days i feel like throwing in the towel, i just can't because finally things make a little sence and things i begged dr.'s to take a closer look at for yrs. is finally happening.

but, the last yr. has been one hell of a ride. vit k?

[shye]

this is from an MD:
"Warfarin works by counteracting Vitamin K in the plasma of the blood. Vitamin K is key in the coagulation pathways responsible for the clotting of blood, and with less activity of Vitamin K blood takes longer to clot. Too little, as well as too much warfarin can be dangerous. If taking a dose that is ineffective, clot formation is not adequately prevented and the problem you are trying to treat or prevent may very well occur. Taking too much warfarin raises the risk of bleeding, especially in the gastrointestinal tract and, in the elderly, the brain. People taking this drug must have their blood monitored to measure the time it takes to clot, which can result in frequent adjustments of their dose. The use of warfarin is considered "full anticoagulation" and is felt to be more effective (a higher level) than other oral blood thinners.
Plavix is a drug known as an anti-platelet drug. This drug works on the platelets in the blood stream by causing them to be less "sticky". When clots form, platelets stick to each other as part of the clotting process. Other medications in this class of drug are aspirin, persantine and aggrenox. Unlike warfarin, monitoring blood levels or activity is not necessary."

So, if you are just on plavix, no need to worry about taking vit K

[Cece]

I guess I think a low vitamin K diet might be helpful post-procedure. Vitamin K is essential for clotting, which we need, but maybe we do not need as much when we're worried about clot formation.

Blossom, hang in there, this is guesswork really. The Plavix is the real thing and it is good that your doctor has you on it.

[whyRwehere]

My husband is taking something called Sintrom. It is an anti-vit.K like coumadin. It says in the paperwork, to avoid eating too much of things like cabbage, broccoli, spinach....but not to avoid them all together. It's difficult to find a vegetable my husband can eat, as he is on the BBD, which says no legumes, no tomatoes, and now he is no green leafy stuff...hmmmm, I like carrots, but I think he is sick of them.

[nagsy]

Last year my wife tried having green smoothies/juices but everytime she had one within 5 minutes she would have a spasm.

It should also be noted that spinach is high in oxalates (oxalates block magnesium absorption).

Cheers,

Pinda

It's pretty much a no-brainer that veggies like broccoli, kale, swiss chard, and spinach are very good for you. In fact Dr. Wahl's ms regimen calls for lots and lots of them in your diet since they benefit mitochondria. However, these veggies are loaded with vitamin K, the blood clotting vitamin. I wonder if eating them after stents were put in might not be a good idea.?

[drsclafani]

this is from an MD:
"Warfarin works by counteracting Vitamin K in the plasma of the blood. Vitamin K is key in the coagulation pathways responsible for the clotting of blood, and with less activity of Vitamin K blood takes longer to clot. Too little, as well as too much warfarin can be dangerous. If taking a dose that is ineffective, clot formation is not adequately prevented and the problem you are trying to treat or prevent may very well occur. Taking too much warfarin raises the risk of bleeding, especially in the gastrointestinal tract and, in the elderly, the brain. People taking this drug must have their blood monitored to measure the time it takes to clot, which can result in frequent adjustments of their dose. The use of warfarin is considered "full anticoagulation" and is felt to be more effective (a higher level) than other oral blood thinners.
Plavix is a drug known as an anti-platelet drug. This drug works on the platelets in the blood stream by causing them to be less "sticky". When clots form, platelets stick to each other as part of the clotting process. Other medications in this class of drug are aspirin, persantine and aggrenox. Unlike warfarin, monitoring blood levels or activity is not necessary."

So, if you are just on plavix, no need to worry about taking vit K

just a need to worry that you were not really on an anticoagulant, just an antiplatelet drug

Both are valuable in reducing the risk of thrombosis.

I follow dr zamboni's recommendations to administerer low molecular weight heparin like material for "blood thinning" for three weeks.