Phlebotomy anyone?
Oh...lol,
Well here is the link to a wikipedia page. Always a good source of info!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijama
Well here is the link to a wikipedia page. Always a good source of info!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijama
katie45 wrote:yes, it does actually remove blood....that.s why I edited my post to say I didn't read far enough..lol
Merlyn, you could send your message to Zamboni via a forward from Dr Marian Simka of Poland:
mariansimka@poczta.onet.pl
mariansimka@poczta.onet.pl
Wish me luck, I'm off to see my Doctor this afternoon with the email from the Iron Overload Disorders Association in hand.
My sister has found out that once a fortnight our blood service runs a clinic for symptomatic people to have blood taken (which they throw out), and I can be referred. They have their own hemotologist who is apparently very knowledgeable on HH. Will report back later today.
Cheers.........
My sister has found out that once a fortnight our blood service runs a clinic for symptomatic people to have blood taken (which they throw out), and I can be referred. They have their own hemotologist who is apparently very knowledgeable on HH. Will report back later today.
Cheers.........
Bethr-I wish you luck! I have to make another appointment with my doctor, I can't believe they have just totally ignored all of the studies on MS and iron metabolism...
So none of the hundreds of studies that have linked neuro degenerative conditions like MS to iron dysregulation are now being totally ignored??? We are just going to throw them all out, ignore their existence, do not try to answer why there is iron in the brains of people with Parkinson's, Huntington's, Alzheimer's... I want Zamboni to explain why these other conditions also feature iron in the brain when they don't have CCSVI. In fact, I think it is endangering people big-time to not run the simple blood test. If people have high iron, they are at risk of stroke, heart attacks, diabetes, liver disease. You cannot ethically ignore this overload because you are setting people up for other major health problems. I cannot conceive of a single valid argument for not running these blood tests, and the doctor worth his salt would do it.http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=20474422
Conclusions Iron overload and upregulation of iron-handling proteins, such as TfR, in the MS brain can contribute to pathogenesis of Multiple Sclerosis and iron imbalance is associated with a prooxidative stress and a proinflammatory environment, this suggest that iron could be a target for MS therapy to improve neuronal iron metabolism.
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sunlounger
- Family Elder
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Hi,
Just got my results back from an iron panel test I did a few weeks ago.
I used a private clinic for this here in the U.K.
http://www.clinicheck.com/cms/
Although the iron panel test details are not on there website
The panel cost including the genetic testing is £480 where as the panel without the genetic test is £ 185
I just did the panel without genetic.
The doctor said from my results my liver looks like it is not in any trouble but some of the other results are elevated.
Male over 20 years
TS 49.9 (20-50)
Iron 172 (55-160)
And on the complete blood count results
HCT 50 (42-52)
All the rest of the results where average inc blood counts and liver function test.
Transferrin 258 (200-400)
Iron binding capacity 304 (250 – 410)
Ferritin 57.91 (16-370)
The doctor said I should re-do parts of this iron panel test in a month’s time and if my levels are still elevated do the genetic test for hemochromatosis (c282y and h63d).
I have managed to find a private phlebotomist who said if I can buy a home blood letting kit she would be prepared to insert the needle in for me.
My local NHS blood letting service won’t let me give blood because I have M.S.
Are there any links to self phlebotomy & the blood letting kits needed ?
Thanks
Just got my results back from an iron panel test I did a few weeks ago.
I used a private clinic for this here in the U.K.
http://www.clinicheck.com/cms/
Although the iron panel test details are not on there website
The panel cost including the genetic testing is £480 where as the panel without the genetic test is £ 185
I just did the panel without genetic.
The doctor said from my results my liver looks like it is not in any trouble but some of the other results are elevated.
Male over 20 years
TS 49.9 (20-50)
Iron 172 (55-160)
And on the complete blood count results
HCT 50 (42-52)
All the rest of the results where average inc blood counts and liver function test.
Transferrin 258 (200-400)
Iron binding capacity 304 (250 – 410)
Ferritin 57.91 (16-370)
The doctor said I should re-do parts of this iron panel test in a month’s time and if my levels are still elevated do the genetic test for hemochromatosis (c282y and h63d).
I have managed to find a private phlebotomist who said if I can buy a home blood letting kit she would be prepared to insert the needle in for me.
My local NHS blood letting service won’t let me give blood because I have M.S.
Are there any links to self phlebotomy & the blood letting kits needed ?
Thanks
Hey Sunlounger,
I think there are ways to stop iron being absorbed until you find someone to help with the bloodletting. (Do they sell leeches in this country;)!!
Calcium supplements with each meal will stop iron absorption. I think IP6 is also a good iron chelator and zinc helps to keep iron in check and Tannin (although I think I have issues with Tannin)
As you have MS and your iron levels are raised maybe you will have some improvements by lowering it. I hope so anyway xxx
I think there are ways to stop iron being absorbed until you find someone to help with the bloodletting. (Do they sell leeches in this country;)!!
Calcium supplements with each meal will stop iron absorption. I think IP6 is also a good iron chelator and zinc helps to keep iron in check and Tannin (although I think I have issues with Tannin)
As you have MS and your iron levels are raised maybe you will have some improvements by lowering it. I hope so anyway xxx
Sunlounger-I would go out on a limb and guess that you are an iron loading heterozygote! Another one! I am looking into trying to find phlebotomy supplies to do what you are wanting to do. I will put more effort into it because I have a feeling there's going to be a few of us self treating. I am thinking of buying a used HemoCue and 18gauge needles because they traumatize the veins less. I cannot get a doctors appointment again until the 31st, he must be on vacation. I just want to say that I thoroughly believe we can totally recover. The thing I am noticing this time is a major improvement in bladder function. I have had large residuals since 1992 and usually I cannot get anything out without a lot of straining. I finally have some proper emptying, not perfect but getting there. And this is after only two phlebotomies! It is astounding. Welcome to the iron loading heterozygote club.
Sorry, that last message was a mess. Dragon NaturallySpeaking takes a lot of proofreading, and I neglected to do it properly. But my point remains the same, why did Zamboni not find stenosis in all these other neurological conditions when 25% of healthy subjects have it. If he tested 60 people, you would expect to find at least 10 or 12 people with stenosis. Then NONE, it does not make any sense.
And I also want to put down a couple of thoughts concerning stenosis. If healthy subjects can have this problem, why are they not experiencing the same reflux back into the brain? Zamboni says that it is a mechanical problem, not a metabolic one. That improper drainage causes a backflow due to venous insufficiency. But if healthy controls are not experiencing this reflux, why not, they have the same mechanical problem and they should be. And before people maintain that that it is due to the extent of the stenosis, I have seen nothing that states this. I have seen no conclusions that the stenosis is more severe in MS, it is more that the veins are blocked by iron and plaque. But if 25% of controls have stenosis without the problematical blockage, why are they not accumulating iron at the same rate? Again, I think this points to higher levels of iron in the blood, which is a metabolic problem, not a mechanical one. I gather that there was a rather broad population tested, and some of these people with stenosis were older. So why aren't they developing the same kinds of blockages? It can't be simple luck.
Why are the healthy controls not experiencing that same backflow even though they have the same mechanical paradigm? In my opinion, there must be some other factor. Perhaps it is the viscosity of the blood? That thicker blood is harder to get through narrowed veins and eventually causes vascular plaques. So maybe people that have blood that is not so thick do not experience the same backflow because the blood is able to flow through the narrowing. I mean what other explanation is there? And if these people are experiencing a backflow that is depositing iron into the brains, why are they still healthy? I doubt 25% of the population is going to develop MS. How can healthy controls have the same stenosis without it causing neurological symptoms or disability?
Are they going to go back and study the healthy controls? Are they going to try to explain the rather obvious discrepancies between the healthy controls and the people with blocked veins/MS? I think it is the healthy controls that are going to reveal the real problem, and that it is more a problem with the blood than the veins.
And I also want to put down a couple of thoughts concerning stenosis. If healthy subjects can have this problem, why are they not experiencing the same reflux back into the brain? Zamboni says that it is a mechanical problem, not a metabolic one. That improper drainage causes a backflow due to venous insufficiency. But if healthy controls are not experiencing this reflux, why not, they have the same mechanical problem and they should be. And before people maintain that that it is due to the extent of the stenosis, I have seen nothing that states this. I have seen no conclusions that the stenosis is more severe in MS, it is more that the veins are blocked by iron and plaque. But if 25% of controls have stenosis without the problematical blockage, why are they not accumulating iron at the same rate? Again, I think this points to higher levels of iron in the blood, which is a metabolic problem, not a mechanical one. I gather that there was a rather broad population tested, and some of these people with stenosis were older. So why aren't they developing the same kinds of blockages? It can't be simple luck.
Why are the healthy controls not experiencing that same backflow even though they have the same mechanical paradigm? In my opinion, there must be some other factor. Perhaps it is the viscosity of the blood? That thicker blood is harder to get through narrowed veins and eventually causes vascular plaques. So maybe people that have blood that is not so thick do not experience the same backflow because the blood is able to flow through the narrowing. I mean what other explanation is there? And if these people are experiencing a backflow that is depositing iron into the brains, why are they still healthy? I doubt 25% of the population is going to develop MS. How can healthy controls have the same stenosis without it causing neurological symptoms or disability?
Are they going to go back and study the healthy controls? Are they going to try to explain the rather obvious discrepancies between the healthy controls and the people with blocked veins/MS? I think it is the healthy controls that are going to reveal the real problem, and that it is more a problem with the blood than the veins.
I wrote to Mark Sirius this morning, to tell him that he is wrong, and I really really hope he checks us out. I will phone him if need be, but he is one of these people that is advocating for the right of people to control their own health.
http://imva.info/index.php/2010/03/multiple-sclerosis/
I really need your help to publicize this. What we are finding on ThisIsMScom is that MS is caused by abnormal iron metabolism. Actually, it turns out they have been studying abnormal iron metabolism in MS for years. The genetics of hemochromatosis fit the genetics of MS! Please go to the left hand menu, select forums, choose CCSVI (Chronic Cerebral Spinal Venous Insufficiency) and go to the thread Phlebotomy, Anyone? I am the person that posts as Merlyn, and what I have found is absolutely astounding. We are iron loading heterozygotes! We are genetic carriers for hemochromatosis, but as carriers we do not sound alarm bells because we are not loading ferritin, we are high in transferrin, the protein that deposits iron in the brain. I have tried all of your magnesium, it doesn't work for me, nor would it for anyone else that has hemochromatosis. I really really need your help Marc, we can be treated by phlebotomy all things! I have had two of them, astounding results. Please check this out, if there is anyone that can make this public it is you.
http://imva.info/index.php/2010/03/multiple-sclerosis/
I really need your help to publicize this. What we are finding on ThisIsMScom is that MS is caused by abnormal iron metabolism. Actually, it turns out they have been studying abnormal iron metabolism in MS for years. The genetics of hemochromatosis fit the genetics of MS! Please go to the left hand menu, select forums, choose CCSVI (Chronic Cerebral Spinal Venous Insufficiency) and go to the thread Phlebotomy, Anyone? I am the person that posts as Merlyn, and what I have found is absolutely astounding. We are iron loading heterozygotes! We are genetic carriers for hemochromatosis, but as carriers we do not sound alarm bells because we are not loading ferritin, we are high in transferrin, the protein that deposits iron in the brain. I have tried all of your magnesium, it doesn't work for me, nor would it for anyone else that has hemochromatosis. I really really need your help Marc, we can be treated by phlebotomy all things! I have had two of them, astounding results. Please check this out, if there is anyone that can make this public it is you.