MS or Lyme

This is the place to ask questions if you have symptoms that suggest MS, but aren't yet diagnosed.
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jimmylegs
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Re: MS or Lyme

Post by jimmylegs » Sat Jan 26, 2019 7:10 am

and as for me, i'm not more important than the ecosystem i inhabit. i will personally use more appropriate local means to achieve similar ends.
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!

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jimmylegs
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Re: MS or Lyme

Post by jimmylegs » Sat Jan 26, 2019 7:46 am

take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!

texaslove
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Re: MS or Lyme

Post by texaslove » Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:18 am

Japanese knotweed contains reservatrol...when I went to the autoimmune class in November...it was advised that MS patients do not take reservatorol (?) I just checked the handout again to make sure I read that right.

I went to the chiropractor this past week, and I feel really good for a few hours after the adjustment. But then, went back to my "new normal"- joint aches/stiffness in hands and feet in the morning and now sometimes at night, and intermittent numbness. L'hermitte's is still present, though slight.

I am feeling really, really, really down.

ElliotB
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Re: MS or Lyme

Post by ElliotB » Sat Jan 26, 2019 12:15 pm

"Japanese knotweed contains reservatrol...when I went to the autoimmune class in November...it was advised that MS patients do not take reservatorol (?)"

It is possible the information you received is wrong. Based on what I know there is no down side to taking Resveratrol.

Is Resveratrol the 'magic pill' that will cure all that ails us, probably not! BUT, it does have many, many benefits with basically no down side as long as you don't take too much. There are numerous sources of Resveratrol and should you decide to take it, you should research them and decide which you think is the most beneficial one. I have been taking the typical Resveratrol supplement for years, and just switch sources a few weeks ago. Because you never know...

While there is no known single simple cure or pill cure for L'hermitte's, there are treatments thought to help including electrical stimulating devices (consider the Fisher Wallace Stimulator or something similar or a TENS unit) that may ease pain by sending low-voltage electricity to your nerves, others considerations would be a soft neck brace or collar to limit movement, massage and muscle relaxation techniques, deep breathing (lots of info online about deep breathing/yoga) and stretching.

Have you tried any of the above?

Have you considered traditional Chinese medicine?

texaslove
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Re: MS or Lyme

Post by texaslove » Sat Jan 26, 2019 12:37 pm

I will take another look at reservatrol! Thank you!

As for things to help with the l'hermitte's- I've so far tried yoga, and have a massage booked in a few weekends. I'm not opposed to accupuncture or reiki or thai yoga.

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jimmylegs
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Re: MS or Lyme

Post by jimmylegs » Sat Jan 26, 2019 12:54 pm

looks like your class may have had it right, TL - based on available research at least

Resveratrol exacerbates both autoimmune and viral models of multiple sclerosis (2013)
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 4013005270
"...resveratrol treatment significantly exacerbated demyelination and inflammation without neuroprotection in the central nervous system in both models. Our findings indicate that caution should be exercised in potential therapeutic applications of resveratrol in human inflammatory demyelinating diseases, including multiple sclerosis."

i am not up to speed on the cuprizone model or other models of ms:

Resveratrol Promotes Remyelination in Cuprizone Model of Multiple Sclerosis: Biochemical and Histological Study (2017)
https://link.springer.com/article/10.10 ... 016-9891-5

"Resveratrol effectively enhanced motor coordination and balance, reversed cuprizone-induced demyelination, improved mitochondrial function, alleviated oxidative stress, and inhibited NF-κB signaling. Interestingly, resveratrol increased Olig1 expression that is positively correlated to active remyelination. The present study may be the first to indicate a pro-remyelinative effect for resveratrol which might represent a potential additive benefit in treating MS."

"The animals were randomly divided into four experimental groups, each containing 20 mice: cuprizone-intoxicated (CI) group received a diet containing 0.7 % (w/w) cuprizone mixed into standard rodent chow for 7 days [22], followed by 3 weeks on 0.2 % cuprizone diet plus oral gavage of phosphate-buffered saline (PBS) once/day. Resveratrol-treated group (RT) received a diet containing 0.7 % cuprizone for 7 days, followed by 3 weeks on 0.2 % cuprizone diet plus 250 mg/kg resveratrol in PBS by oral gavage once daily [21]."

related background info (new to me)

Multiple sclerosis: experimental models and reality (2017)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5250666/

"Toxic models are highly useful to unravel mechanisms of de- and remyelination, but do not reflect other important aspects of MS pathology and pathogenesis. For all these reasons, it is important to select the right experimental model to answer specific questions in MS research. ...

Toxic Models of demyelination and remyelination
(1) Cuprizone Models [132]
Highly reproducible time course of demyelination and remyelination; well-defined pathophysiological mechanisms of demyelination
Very good models to study basic biology of demyelination and remyelination
Very efficient spontaneous remyelination after cessation of the toxic injury; permanent remyelination failure, as seen in many MS lesions, is only seen in models with prolonged cuprizone intoxication"

Strain differences in cuprizone induced demyelination (2017)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5670722/

"We demonstrate that exposure to a diet containing 0.2% cuprizone resulted in less severe demyelination in the midline of the corpus callosum over the fornix in CD1 mice than C57BL/6 mice. With continuous cuprizone feeding, demyelination in CD1 mice was not prominent until after 7 weeks"

afaic the jury is still out on this one :)

if a toxin is causal where human demyelination is concerned, i'd be more inclined to remove the toxin than keep it and add an herbal. my 2c!
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!

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jimmylegs
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Re: MS or Lyme

Post by jimmylegs » Sat Jan 26, 2019 1:20 pm

i checked out the article linked above, TL.

re "We may finally have found the long-elusive cause of Alzheimer’s disease: Porphyromonas gingivalis, the key bacteria in chronic gum disease."
here is some related research of possible interest:

Trace Mineral Micronutrients and Chronic Periodontitis—a Review (2017)
https://link.springer.com/article/10.10 ... 016-0832-y
"Trace mineral micronutrients are imperative for optimum host response. Populations worldwide are prone to their insufficiency owing to lifestyle changes or poor nutritional intake. Balanced levels of trace minerals like iron (Fe), zinc (Zn), selenium (Se) and copper (Cu) are essential to prevent progression of chronic conditions like periodontitis. Their excess as well as deficiency is detrimental to periodontal health."

Zinc and copper play a role in coaggregation inhibiting action of Porphyromonas gingivalis (2008)
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs ... 08.00476.x
"Conclusions: Our findings suggest that zinc and copper ions markedly enhanced the adhesion and accumulation of salivary and serum proteins on cells of P. gingivalis and inhibited the coaggregation and hemagglutination of P. gingivalis. These cations might be useful for limiting the settlement of P. gingivalis in the gingival sulcus with the goal of preventing periodontal disease."

i've posted elsewhere here at TiMS re copper zinc ratios in alzheimer's patients. per that limited data, the higher the copper and the lower the zinc, the worse off the patient.

also related:

Copper and Zinc Dysregulation in Alzheimer’s Disease (2018)
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 4718301792
"Brain zinc participates in AD pathogenesis by affecting amyloid metabolism, but the metal can also positively modulate synaptic functioning and neurotrophic signaling, as well as help to restore copper homeostasis."
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!

texaslove
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Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:20 pm

Re: MS or Lyme

Post by texaslove » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:17 am

Just posting an update. Morning stiffness in my hands is horrible right now, so I left a message for the second neuro- that, plus tingling up and down spine, and maybe an increased l'hermitte's has really got me scared right now. I start my extra supplements at the end of this week - everything the lyme doc prescribes fights inflammation so I am hopeful for that (?). But the neuro was very dismissive about any lyme tests, so I'm not sure about what to say about the supplements I'll start taking ...

texaslove
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Re: MS or Lyme

Post by texaslove » Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:46 pm

6 month check up with neuro last month. I saw the PA, not the main doctor and she has been the 1st mainstream doctor to even acknowledge I may have lyme. Scheduled for another MRI within the next 6 months. Still undiagnosed and holding steady I guess- joint pain in hands and feet is pretty painful; if I do cardio, I get tingles in body...l'hermitte's is gone.

Apparently this (joint pain) is a symptom of lyme and coinfections. Back on my herbal supplements, but I need to revamp my diet and likely add a few other herbs (I ordered another one last week). Anyway, just checking back in and I would LOVE to talk to anyone else who may have suspected lyme or had positive lyme tests...

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