Is "flu" symptoms common?

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Dololo
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Is "flu" symptoms common?

Post by Dololo » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:55 am

Sorry another symptom question from me. Is it a common symptom with MS to have "flu" symptoms like sore throat, blocked nose, runny nose and eyes, sneezing, feeling of fever? Or would this rather indicate some sort of virus or allergies?

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NHE
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Re: Is "flu" symptoms common?

Post by NHE » Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:09 am

Dololo wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:55 am
Sorry another symptom question from me. Is it a common symptom with MS to have "flu" symptoms like sore throat, blocked nose, runny nose and eyes, sneezing, feeling of fever? Or would this rather indicate some sort of virus or allergies?
I rarely feel sick as you describe. For sinus problems, I recommend using a sinus rinse such as the NeilMed.

http://shop.neilmed.com/Products/Sinus- ... egular-Kit

https://www.amazon.com/NeilMed-100-Sinu ... 000RDZFZ0/

Zyklon
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Re: Is "flu" symptoms common?

Post by Zyklon » Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:30 am

Common for me. I think it is related to suboptimal magnesium levels. Sinus rinse helps a lot.
Pain! You made me a, you made me a believer, believer
Pain! You break me down, you build me up, believer, believer
Pain! Oh let the bullets fly, oh let them rain
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jimmylegs
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Re: Is "flu" symptoms common?

Post by jimmylegs » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:08 am

hi again, infection has been associated with relapse in ms.
my personal sense is that susceptibility to infection and risk of relapse can both be associated with subpar self care.

a personal example from last year - after three years of being lax with nutrition for the sake of a busy work schedule (and quite frankly wondering if my diet was sufficient to keep me on track without supplements - answer: no) i got a bad infection coupled with brain damage visible on mri and felt as double vision.

dx: internuclear ophthalmoplegia. no medical support. i had to dig up the rehab protocol on my own.

i am definitely in worse shape overall since. much more vulnerable to increases in core temp. i have been extremely diligent with nutrition and testing over the past year, health has been stable throughout - no infections or related symptoms at all.

i have been too busy with writing for a long time, but expect to get myself into better physical condition and regain better heat tolerance in the months ahead.

if your current regimen is thin on or imbalanced for nutrients which support healthy immune function, that could be something to take a closer look at - if only to rule it out as a possible contributing factor.
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!

Dololo
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Re: Is "flu" symptoms common?

Post by Dololo » Thu Mar 21, 2019 3:20 pm

Thanks. I eating ridiculously healthy and nutrient dense, and taking an array of supplements, incl. magnesium.

When I got sick three years ago (which became chronic with different symptoms waxing and waning), part of the symptom "package" was extremely sore throat + the above mentioned symptoms, and these flu-like symptoms have been more or less constant since then. If this is not a common thing with MS, maybe my root illness is something else...

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Re: Is "flu" symptoms common?

Post by jimmylegs » Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:13 pm

may well be.
i still wonder about your routine. cold symptoms just don't sound right for a topped up and balanced system! :S
what are your daily intakes of vits A C E and minerals selenium and zinc, if i may ask?
may i also ask after the type and amount of magnesium you are using?
do you have a serum vit d3 level on file? serum vit b12? serum magnesium? serum ferritin? serum zinc? serum copper?
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!

Dololo
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Re: Is "flu" symptoms common?

Post by Dololo » Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:05 am

Magnesium Glycinate 200mg, 1 or 2 tablets a day (evening) and sometimes magnesium spray for cramps/restless legs. I take zinc and selenium supplements several days a week. B12 level was 205 two months ago (reference lowest level 137 in this country) and I'm now on B12 injections. The other tests are within range, but Ferritin and vit D on the lower end, so supplementing those too. Chugging down handfuls of supplements every day 🤷🏻‍♀️ Also taking gut support supps, milk thistle, Folate, B complex, cod liver oil, omega 3. I got severely and chronically sick three years ago after an infection. All blood tests always within range. I have the other tests you ask for in my archive, I can find them. But as mentioned, everything is "normal". Full Blood Count normal, homocysteine normal, CRP normal.

Something is just plain wrong in my body and I don't know what it is. I have all the MS symptoms, but the flu symptoms in addition. So maybe that means something else is causing my illness.

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Re: Is "flu" symptoms common?

Post by jimmylegs » Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:40 am

hi again, great info, more is welcome when you can find it.

'normal' is not 'optimal'. gump and einstein are both statistically normal. so are chronic disease patients and healthy controls. normal is the mean +/- 2SD. that covers 95% of the bell curve. if only 5% of the population were unhealthy, the normal/abnormal distinction would make sense. as it is, it does not!

re magnesium. daily requirements for this one are under review right now. the amounts for women are based on 123lbs. which i think is 56kg. some authors (over the last five decades) have suggested higher intakes than mainstream recs. eg 7-10 mg/kg body weight per day. requirements vary not just by body size but also by environmental stressors. so a 56kg woman could need between let's say 400 and 560 mg per day. if your current intakes are in line with your needs, great. if not, could be worth considering revisions. it depends first and foremost where the mag is coming from in your diet. way more important than the pills (mag glycinate is a good one afaic)

one of the most important interactions to look at is vit D and its cofactors, magnesium in particular. is it vit d3 you are taking? how much per day? how do you time it in relation to the magnesium? all key info.

what kind of ferritin have you been taking? how much per pill? how many pills per week? how do you time intake in relation to zinc, on days when you include zn in the regimen?
what kind of zinc? how much per pill? how many pills per week? balanced with copper? i'd be interested in levels info for both.
what kind of selenium? how much per pill? how many pills per week? a serum result would be good to see
anything for vits A C and E(complex)? est intakes from food and/or supplements?

re vit b12. what were the units of measurement for that 205? good that you're working on that now.

full blood count and all that is always normal. for the most part i can only provide insight on serum essential nutrients. that and serum uric acid.

ok that's all for now :) will check in again later.
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!

Dololo
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Re: Is "flu" symptoms common?

Post by Dololo » Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:08 am

Taking Vit D3, 5000 iu daily.
Every other day ish also Vit K.
Zinc picolinate 22mg daily ish.
Co Enzyme Q10 200mg daily.
Iron hydrolyzed protein chelate 18mg daily (on empty stomach.)
Selenium (as L-selenomethionine) 200mcg (?) a few times a week.

Zyklon
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Re: Is "flu" symptoms common?

Post by Zyklon » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:51 am

You can not/shall not take 5000 IU D3 daily with only 200 mg magnesium. Your flu-like symptoms are because of magnesium deficiency.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11425281

Please increase magnesium or decrease D3. What you do is dangerous in the long term. Take care.
Pain! You made me a, you made me a believer, believer
Pain! You break me down, you build me up, believer, believer
Pain! Oh let the bullets fly, oh let them rain
My life, my love, my drive, it came from... Pain!

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jimmylegs
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Re: Is "flu" symptoms common?

Post by jimmylegs » Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:24 pm

hi again, more very useful info.

vit d3 status is absolutely very important *AND* 5000 IU is definitely something to be very careful with long term.

when i ran into serious trouble with d3 and mag long term, i was using 4000 iU of d3 per day, plus a spoonful of this
https://lifetimevitamins.com/catalog/pr ... w/id/2783/

the pharmacist who sorted me out said, in a nutshell:
"you are not taking enough mag for that much d3. take more.
you need to divide the daily mag dose. take half *with* the d3, and half *well away* from any potential d3 interaction."

what was your d3 level at last test, and what serum target are you aiming for specifically?

re the potential infection connection:

there are several nutrients of concern for ms patients that are also implicated in infection. magnesium may well be one of them (i have definitely posted johnson's related article - linked above by z - more than once in the past, but in hindsight, tracking down the citations in a search for primary experimental data leads nowhere fast. mea culpa!!).
here's some related and more recent primary data. not in one of your top journals, but something at least:

Changes of magnesium serum levels in patients with acute ischemic stroke and acute infections (2009)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20067167
even the healthy control group levels (1.69 mEq/L) are meh, in that study. i'd be gunning for more like 2.0 mEq/L, personally.

re the zinc and iron. do these go in at the same time, or separate?

good call on the zn picolinate.
and on the selenomethionine for that matter.
q. do you have a serum selenium number on file? if so, did the result match 'ms patient normal' or 'healthy control normal'? if your se levels need to come up, you could consider a short term therapeutic intake, more like 400mcg daily for a little while. then return to 200mcg. along the lines of having 4 brazil nuts per day for the boost, then dropping back to 2 per day for maintenance.

i recently added cut up brazil nuts to my mon-fri am trail mix snack. they're in charge of selenium now, other than whatever comes in the multi. i consider it a 'maintenance-plus' sort of regimen. in combo with everything else, seems to be working. no hint of any kind of infection since the evil one that took me down a bit more than a year ago now.

hopefully somewhere in all of that you can find a few useful takeaway points :)
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!

Dololo
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Re: Is "flu" symptoms common?

Post by Dololo » Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:57 pm

Thanks for your replies, it's much appreciated. I've only taken the vit D3 for about six weeks, because the doc said levels should be in upper range. Before this I've never taken vit D as supplement. I can post the blood levels tomorrow. Same doc also said I should increase Magnesium to 400 a day. So increased this at the same time as starting the vit D. But the doc didn't say anything about timing though.

Zinc and iron I've been taking away from each other usually.

I don't think my Selenium ever has been tested. I can try requesting this from the doc. Not sure about copper, I think it got tested two years ago, will find the results and post them.

Thanks for the heads up re D and Mag. My Magnesium supplement also contains Boron 500 mcg, is this a problem if I increase the intake of this supplement?

A, C and E: Eating high C fruits every day. Sometimes taking a C supplement. A and E I don't supplement specifically, but I think there might be some A in the cod liver oil.
Last edited by Dololo on Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Dololo
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Re: Is "flu" symptoms common?

Post by Dololo » Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:02 pm

Vit D blood test was 25.4 ng/ml. Upper range ("safe limit") is 60 ng/ml, <12 is "deficiency". Test taken Jan 23 this year.

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jimmylegs
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Re: Is "flu" symptoms common?

Post by jimmylegs » Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:39 pm

ok i have to run out now but can respond quickly to the d3 number. converts to 63.4 nmol/l. insufficient. many docs will be content with 75 nmol/l aka 30 ng/ml. that is a musculoskeletal target for preventing osteomalacia/osteoporosis. for immune system concerns, aim higher. some authors propose 90-100 nmol/l. i consider 125-150 nmol/l (50-60 ng/ml) the sweet spot as long as i can also keep serum magnesium in line. many labs and professionals consider the upper end of safe to be 250 nmol/l (100 ng/ml) because that's supposed to be when hypercalcemia risks may increase. the higher the d3 level the more ppl have to avoid calcium. ack i'm late gotta go! more later.
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!

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