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Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:45 pm
by Pesho ... 4wLGh4DeAw
Watched this video. I know it is about Paleo and there is topic for that, but I'm more interested in lectins. They mention not to eat tomatoes and peanuts in the video. I'm interested what other foods we should avoid? And the other problem is that I just love peanuts and tomatoes :(. I read that cashew nuts also have lectin, and potatoes?!? I might be wrong for the last two, I didn't have much time to investigate before opening the topic. So, bye, bye ketchup and tomato salad, roasted peanuts :(. And last week I've been eating a lot of tomatoes, and raw nuts every morning :(. Most interested if there is lectin in cashew nuts.

Re: Lectins

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 4:23 pm
by jimmylegs
What Foods Contain Them?
The short answer here is basically all plants and animal products (PDF) to varying degrees. Nonetheless, lectins are concentrated more in some sources than others. Foods with the highest lectin activity include: grains of all kinds (especially wheat), legumes (especially soy), nuts, dairy, and nightshade plants (e.g. eggplant, tomatoes, potatoes, peppers, etc.). Add to this list the oils and other derivative products from these food sources. And yet another, lesser known category: GMO food, since lectins are often spliced into modified varieties in order to enhance “natural” pest and fungal resistance...Human ingenuity evolved across traditional cultures to “predigest” lectins through food preparation practices (fermenting, soaking, etc.).
eat food, prepared with care :)

found this study that links zinc deficiency with elevated lectin.. in injured rat brains :S
Zinc or copper deficiency-induced impaired inflammatory response to brain trauma may be caused by the concomitant metallothionein changes

Re: Lectins

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:08 am
by jimmylegs
i've been doing some research on health benefits of lectins. have a few studies tucked away so far, but am piecing together the links and letting it percolate a little.

in the meantime, found this from a notably anti-paleo side of the fence: ... ients.html

i had already seen the studies referenced, but i'm digging a little deeper - and more specifically wrt MS. interesting stuff!

Re: Lectins

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:55 pm
by CaveMan
Read through the blog, started out ok with some info, then just became a tirade of "My way or the Highway" he would have done much better sticking to the facts as much as they can be called facts.

He has not done any serious investigation into the Paleo diet concept and has made the assumption that it is just a high meat consumption diet.
Basically the primary driver of Paleo is an attempt to simulate the food environment we evolved on and there's no denying that 10mya (million years ago) we were most likely fruit eaters primarily, the 6mya we hit the ground running and included tubers and some meat, 3mya stone tools were being used to butcher meat, 2mya our brains got bigger and we became better runners, active hunters and probably ate more meat, 1mya controlled fire was being used for protection and most likely the first BBQ, cooking had began, 400kya (thousand years ago) first homo sapien types were seen, leaner, bigger brained, composite tool making using sticks & stones to make spears, 100kya we were fully Human and our lives were quite complex with a variety of specialised tools, weapons, spear throwers and even adornment like beads & colouring, we had developed complex social practices & probably simple clothing, we probably looked, sounded and acted like the San Bushmen or Hadzi in Africa today, the migration out of Africa occured around 70kya.
Agriculture & Animal domestication (Neolithic period) in stages betwee 12-8kya this progressed gradually with an acceleration of food modification in the last 300 years and particularly the last 100years.
There is some evidence of adaptation to the Neolithic foods grains, legumes & dairy as evidenced by gradients of Gluten and dairy intolerence from the middle east to northern Europe & east Asia respectively.
The fundamental argument is we took 10,000 generations to evolve to the traditional "Hunter Gatherer" diet & lifestyle, is 300generations enough for us to fully adapt to the neolithic environment, particularly taking into consideration that the original wheat etc. looks nothing like the modern wheat of today, the wild wheat first grown was tall, small grained, low gluten & only had 14 chromosomes, modern wheat is dwarf, large grained, high gluten and has 42 chromosomes and all other modern foods have had similar selective breeding changes including the good ones like the Fruit & Veg.
The primary thrust from the Ancestral diet community is about maximum nutrition, yes get adequate Macro's but it is the Micronutrients where the crux of the problem is, Vitamins, minerals & cofactors and the biggest argument against grains are is that for the same volume of Macro (starch) there is virtually no micronutrients. There is a general leaning towards using fat as the primary dietary fuel rather than carbohydrate and there is good scientific basis for this, starchy tubers are considered far superior to grains as a source of carbohydrate, primary because of their cellular structure & lower GI rating.

Lectins and other Anti Nutrients - The argument about these being beneficial in fighting disease is almost ludicrous as to how many disease conditions they have been implicated in, they are a necessary evil as they come in the food we eat, like most toxins our body manages quite fine if intake is low-moderate, but if intake goes too high and the body is already under significant stress from environment or disease then they only add to the burden. Soaking before cooking was traditional for both grains and legumes, this does two things it triggers the growth process and the antinutrients begin conversion to more benign molecules used to fuel the growth of the seed until roots develop and others are released into the water naturally, 24hr soak with multiple rinsing can reduce antinutrients by more than 50% and then cooking will reduce this a little bit more, but there will always be some present. They are acid and enzyme resistant and have the ability to bind a variety of Human receptors , there is a question of how they enter the blood stream, this could be via the receptors or leaky gut or possibly both, either way once in the blood stream they wreak havoc if not controlled.
Gut health is essential and should be the first treatment protocol in any healing process once overt symptoms are adequately controlled.
I don't think the Paleo diet is the answer to everything, but I think after thorough evaluation most people would see that it offers many clues to a generally healthier direction, I still eat a small amount of legumes, grains & dairy, but selectively and with proper preparation, I would not restrict nightshades(tomatoes, peppers) unless you have a specific allergenic response, the main thrust should be to increase variety, nothing should become a staple, you should range far and wide for foods to maximise variety and micronutrient access.

Having said all that I would be keen to see any study that shows benefits of lectins in disease treatment, not in a petri dish where even kerosene will kill cancer cells, but at leased randomized, controlled, pacebo studies that only change one factor and improve a disease condition.

Re: Lectins

Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:59 am
by THX1138
Hi JL. The person that's been coming over to help me with cooking and cleaning made bean salad on Friday, per my request. It was delicious. However it's caused some problems, it seems. My muscles are tighter than they've ever been, and I can hardly stand up because the muscles are so tight. I'm suspecting it maybe the lectins, and I remember you telling me that I ate too many beans. The exacerbation of the muscle tightness started after eating the beans. I ate almost three cans (a mix of kidney and black beans) in about 2 days. Does this seem like something that could have happened just from eating the beans over a couple of days :?:

Re: Lectins

Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:46 am
by ElliotB
"Does this seem like something that could have happened just from eating the beans over a couple of days"


Different people have different reactions/tolerances for lectins. I have had to stop eating vegetables totally and consume a very limited number of fruits (berries only) as veggies seem to increase my nerve pain quite a bit. The reaction takes a few hours and lasts about 24-36 hours.

Even well cooked, which is supposed to help a lot in reducing/eliminating lectins, I still have major pain issues. Although not everyone will agree, vegetables have limited nutrition anyway.

FWIW, many symptoms from lectins mirror many MS symptoms very closely.

Re: Lectins

Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:12 pm
by THX1138
I've been reflecting on this increased muscle tightness that started this weekend. It just occurred to me that my diet changed, such that it yielded insufficient calories. As I've written about before, not eating enough causes my muscles to be tighter. This weekend I ate mainly bean salad and chicken stir fry. Both of these were low in calories. If I don't eat enough, my hands get cold. and I would assume the vasoconstriction goes beyond the periphery of my body to areas of more central vasculature.
It seems like the beans could have played a role, but I've never noticed a problem from beans before. However, I have frequently noticed a problem from not eating enough. Not eating enough causes my muscles to become significantly more spastic or tight. Then again, it could be both the beans and the insufficient calorie intake.