all things vitamin D

[Loumalone]

That's great lads, thanks, i've ordered the stronger stuff you mentioned above.
I'm in Ireland and can't get stuff i need locally but can easily order from the UK.

So now i'm now thinking i need to find out if i'm taking enough B complex!

Cheers again, Lou

[NHE]

I should note that if one is considering megadosing with vitamin D3, then it's likely best to get your blood levels checked first and have them monitored after a period of time.

NHE

[jimmylegs]

refresh (see above):
"also the amount for each person to supplement does differ, depending on how far they are from optimal.

BUT, dose response also varies among individuals. you can optimize absorption for your age, skin colour, and level of exposure.

take a base line d3 level. select a daily dose for ex amount of time and test again for the amount of increase. helps to keep in mind there's a lag time from exposure to max serum level."

also fyi re personal xp - optimal zinc status optimizes d3 absorption

[ThisIsMA]

Here is a very encouraging recent scientific article about the mechanisms Vitamin D3 uses to reduce the immune system's attack in MS.

You can read the whole article (and listen to a podcast interview with the researcher) here:

http://jaxmice.jax.org/news/2011/MS_vitD.html

"Vitamin D, a Monkey Wrench in the MS Biochemical Machinery"

In summary, the Christakos-Steinman team is the first to identify the molecular mechanisms by which vitamin D down-regulates autoimmune phenotypes characteristic of MS and EAE. They demonstrated that the active form of vitamin D represses IL17A transcription by blocking NFAT, recruiting HDAC, complexing with the VDR and sequestering RUNX1, and inducing FOXP3. Their work provides a much needed framework for initiating clinical trials to test the efficacy of vitamin D or its analogs in fighting MS and other autoimmune diseases.

And here is a different study that looks into the safety of taking high dose Vitamin D:

http://multiple-sclerosis-research.blog ... um-25.html

These results demonstrate the safety of taking 5,000U or 10,0000U of vD3 per day and the importance of measuring blood levels of vD3 to ensure that the dose taken is adequate to achieve optimal blood levels.

Disclaimer: I'm not a medical professional, just a person with MS who takes high dose Vitamin D3. Please do your own research and draw your own conclusions. We are all responsible for our own health care decisions. Knowledge is power.

[Vikingquest]

Hi there,

I was wondering if any of you guys had any anecdotal or personal experience with vit D supplementing? Is it actually helpful in slowing the disease progression at it's early stages? What is a safe dosage to take on a daily basis? Is 10,000ui okay? 20,000?

What are you guys taking and has it had any effect?

Also I was wondering how many of you are using helminths to slow progression. Are they working? What types and how many?

Is there Anyone who lives in the UK and are involved in the Nottingham uni study??

Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!

VQ

[jimmylegs]

hi vq, in my xp, safe dosing depends on nutrient status. i was safe to take short term megadoses when i was zinc deficient, once i fixed the deficiency, it became dangerous to megadose.

someone i know has been having trouble getting d3 levels up taking 10,000 - 20,000 IU per day. zinc levels are on the low side and they had not been taking calcium, magnesium, or zinc. that has now been started up, and the daily d3 intake has been lowered. results of the new approach still pending. we'll see!

[mrbarlow]

Im on Helminthic Therapy since February 11 and had a top up in August.

I have only had one acute attack and that was ON in November 2010. Since then overall I have got much better but this maybe down to Rebif / Supplements / diet.

So to date no acute attacks. Do get some minor transient symptoms - slight blurring in left eye. Today my left arm feels strange but is quite funtional.

[daverestonvirginia]

I have been taking vitamin D supplements for about six years since I was dx. I believe it has helped me. I take 6,000iu's a day, and I get my vitamin d level checked once a year. Everyone is a little different as to how much vitamin d they need so I recommend yearly testing. Optimal level of circulating vitamin D is between 100 and 150 nmol/l (nanomols per litre).

[euphoniaa]

Hi there,

I was wondering if any of you guys had any anecdotal or personal experience with vit D supplementing? Is it actually helpful in slowing the disease progression at it's early stages? What is a safe dosage to take on a daily basis? Is 10,000ui okay? 20,000?

What are you guys taking and has it had any effect?

Also I was wondering how many of you are using helminths to slow progression. Are they working? What types and how many?

Is there Anyone who lives in the UK and are involved in the Nottingham uni study??

Any help would be greatly appreciated!!! VQ

Hi VQ,

Here's a link to a thread about a recent vitamin D study where I gave my own personal experiences - lots & lots of them. My progression was very slow - until I started vit D.
http://www.thisisms.com/forum/general-d ... 17545.html
And there are LOTS of vit D studies on Squiffy's original link – to the msrc website: http://www.msrc.co.uk/index.cfm/fuseact ... ageid/1334

And here's a quote from me on that thread:

Geez, I've been going steadily downhill since I started taking 4000 IU of vit D a little over a year ago - faster and faster since then. Same with Vit B12. Seriously, I had negligible symptoms at diagnosis 8 years ago, but once I started dabbling in vitamins, supplements, made recommended changes to my already healthy diet, etc. - and finally quit smoking completely (was still puffing them some at dx) - I've become a major MS casualty.

As for the worms, no experience there. I still have trouble even reading about those here.

Good luck!

[MSUK]

MS patients to be given vitamin D to test sun's effect on the condition



Patients with early-stage multiple sclerosis are to be given vitamin D supplements as part of a trial to determine if a lack of sunshine may contribute to the illness.

It has long been noted that incidences of MS increase the further away from the equator people are, although doctors are not sure whether the reasons are environmental or genetic, or a combination of both.

A previous study examined discrepancies between MS rates in Donegal, which has some of the lowest sunshine levels in Ireland and has high rates of MS, and Wexford, which is the sunniest part of the country and has lower levels of the disease. The study concluded that sunshine may play a role, but it may also be down to genetics.

Consultant neurologist Dr Chris McGuigan, who works in St Vincent’s Hospital, said the study, which is scheduled to begin before the end of the year, will be carried out to see if vitamin D supplementation can stop the next “event” or seizure.... Read More - http://www.msrc.co.uk/index.cfm/fuseact ... ageid/1334

[ErikaSlovakia]

hi vq, in my xp, safe dosing depends on nutrient status. i was safe to take short term megadoses when i was zinc deficient, once i fixed the deficiency, it became dangerous to megadose.

someone i know has been having trouble getting d3 levels up taking 10,000 - 20,000 IU per day. zinc levels are on the low side and they had not been taking calcium, magnesium, or zinc. that has now been started up, and the daily d3 intake has been lowered. results of the new approach still pending. we'll see!

It is perhaps me. I will have my control blood tests in about 2 weeks.
I just have difficuilties with nausea after taking Zinc after lunch (25mg). I am fine taking 25 mg after dinner. I think I will try 50 mg in the evening only as I would like to funktion during the day as well. I teach 1 English lessen 3 times a week - my only job.
Erika

[jimmylegs]

yep i was talking about you erika wow that's weird that only 25mg makes you nauseous. i definitely get sick from 100mg but i can take 50 no probs. sure try taking all 50 after dinner and see how it goes!

when i had some of my worst symptoms, i was taking vitamin d3 but no calcium, magnesium, or zinc. i gave myself a magnesium deficiency (i didn't know at the time so no bloodwork unfortunately) because of high dosing just d3. i was horribly sick from the d3 until i got on track with balancing it with other necessary minerals.

in hindsight i would say taking d3 did indeed increase my 'progression' but it was a reversible side effect of not taking it properly.

[jackD]

It seems that 10,000 IUs of Vitamin d3 is the upper limit recommended for this supplement.

jackD

Am J Clin Nutr. 2007 Jan;85(1):6-18.

Risk assessment for vitamin D.

Hathcock JN, Shao A, Vieth R, Heaney R.

SourceCouncil for Responsible Nutrition, Washington, DC 20036-5114, USA. jhathcock@crnusa.org

Abstract
The objective of this review was to apply the risk assessment methodology used by the Food and Nutrition Board (FNB) to derive a revised safe Tolerable Upper Intake Level (UL) for vitamin D. New data continue to emerge regarding the health benefits of vitamin D beyond its role in bone. The intakes associated with those benefits suggest a need for levels of supplementation, food fortification, or both that are higher than current levels.

A prevailing concern exists, however, regarding the potential for toxicity related to excessive vitamin D intakes. The UL established by the FNB for vitamin D (50 microg, or 2000 IU) is not based on current evidence and is viewed by many as being too restrictive, thus curtailing research, commercial development, and optimization of nutritional policy. Human clinical trial data published subsequent to the establishment of the FNB vitamin D UL published in 1997 support a significantly higher UL. We present a risk assessment based on relevant, well-designed human clinical trials of vitamin D.

Collectively, the absence of toxicity in trials conducted in healthy adults that used vitamin D dose > or = 250 microg/d (10,000 IU vitamin D3) supports the confident selection of this value as the UL.

PMID: 17209171 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[jimmylegs]

i think it's really important to supplement d3 with care. i'd be curious to go back and review the duration of those trials in that meta-analysis.
10,000 IU is a logical upper limit, but in the absence of balanced mineral supplementation i think in time the wheels would come off.
i think i was only taking 4000IU per day when i ran into trouble, but the problems took a long time to manifest.

[CVfactor]

With the discovery of regulatory T-cells whose function it is to regulate the immune system, it seems that there has been another recent discovery which explains how these regulatory T-cells work:

http://bloodjournal.hematologylibrary.o ... 3.abstract

And here is a good graphic from this paper that gives a good description of this recent discovery:



To explain this graphic, the molecule at the left (IgG) represents an immune system antibody. These antibodies contain epitopes from antigens that are derived from pathogens. In laymens terms you can think of an antigen as a key chain and the epitopes as a key on the chain. The epitopes are use to sensitize immune cells to seek out the pathogens within the body once they have be activated by antigen presenting cells (the key has to fit the lock to initiate an immune response).

So anyway, it appears that within these antibodies there has been found Tregitopes that activate regulatory T-cells to shut down the immune response at an appropriate time.

The response to effector epitopes may outnumber the Tregitopes, resulting in an initial inflammatory
response. As antigen is cleared and the ratio of Ig to antigen increases, the balance tips toward tolerance, diminishing immune
response and reducing further tissue damage and adverse systemic effects.

But a key factor in this regulation is that there has to be regulatory T-cells (Tregs), and it appears that people with MS have a deficiency of the number or efficacy of these cells. And from the data I have provided in this post, Vitamin D appears to promote the development of Tregs.