AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Dr M Amir - Putney London UK

[Amir]

Yes, but beta interferon never makes anyone better. It stops 33% of relapses.

None of the 20+ patients I am treating have had a relapse. What does this mean? A 100% result!

Furthermore it appears that none of the patient symptoms have anything to do with any neurological damage.

What the drugs are affecting is beyond comprehension!

[gibbledygook]

Mmm. So none of your MS patients have had a relapse?! I have definitely had relapses.

Maybe your treatment has something to do with this:

Cranio. 2011 Jul;29(3):178-86.
Bruxism and temporal bone hypermobility in patients with multiple sclerosis.
Williams DE, Lynch JE, Doshi V, Singh GD, Hargens AR.
Source
National CCSVI Society.
Abstract
In this study, the authors investigated the link between jaw clenching/bruxism and temporal bone movement associated with multiple sclerosis (MS). Twenty-one subjects participated in this study (10 patients with MS and 11 controls). To quantify the change in intracranial dimension between the endocranial surfaces of the temporal bones during jaw clenching, an ultrasonic pulsed phase locked loop (PPLL) device was used. A sustained jaw clenching force of 100 lbs was used to measure the mean change in acoustic pathlength (delta L) as the measure of intracranial distance. In the control subjects the mean delta L was 0.27 mm +/- 0.24. In subjects with MS the mean delta L was 1.71 mm +/- 1.18 (p<0.001). The increase in magnitude of bi-temporal bone intracranial expansion was approximately six times greater in subjects with MS compared to controls. Therefore, jaw clenching/bruxism is associated with more marked displacement of the temporal bones and expansion of the cranial cavity in patients with MS than in control subjects.
PMID: 22586826 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22586826

[CureOrBust]

None of the 20+ patients I am treating have had a relapse. What does this mean? A 100% result!

No, not in the same terms. At 20 patients, your confidence interval would be pretty small, and your results are not a blinded trial. You cannot scientifically compare them to the results from proper trials.

I am FAR from an interferon groupie (I did my worst ever on Rebif, and stopped pretty quickly), however, I do have respect for the large (ie 000's of participants), double blinded scientific trials used in medicine.

If you are NOT performing a proper scientific trial, then advising a patient to stop any medication that has gone through the full 3 stage trial process, just so you can tell what is making them better is dangerous and not about the patients best interests, when you cannot specify any contraindications. Otherwise I think it should be up to the patient to make the decision.

As an MS sufferer for many years, I personally would be happy to take 10 treatments, without knowing which one has worked (as long as one of them works, and the side effects are acceptable). After I am better (a safer position to be taking bets on any single unproven treatment), THEN I may stop one treatment at a time, to see which has made the difference.

[EJC]

Yes, but beta interferon never makes anyone better. It stops 33% of relapses.

On what basis do you claim this fact?

I ask that question as Emma was taking Copaxone for 12 months which provided the same claim.

We asked the nurse what it was doing and how it worked - she said she didn't know. So we asked the manufacturer what it was and how it worked, guess what THEY DIDN'T KNOW either! Easy decision to stop and there were no physical changes before during or after the treatment with this drug.

So tell me please, how does Beta Interferon stop 33% of relapses?

[EJC]

If you are NOT performing a proper scientific trial, then advising a patient to stop any medication that has gone through the full 3 stage trial process, just so you can tell what is making them better is dangerous and not about the patients best interests, when you cannot specify any contraindications. Otherwise I think it should be up to the patient to make the decision.

So based on this statement you'd consider Tysabri safe to continue taking? After all it's been through full trials.

Amir, as someone in private practice, can tell his prospective patients what his terms for treatment are - in this case stop all other DMD medications. It's then your choice if you wish to continue or not, it is free choice and it is in the patients interest. You are someone not comfortable with this situation so would chose to continue on the path on which you're on.

As an MS sufferer for many years, I personally would be happy to take 10 treatments, without knowing which one has worked (as long as one of them works, and the side effects are acceptable). After I am better (a safer position to be taking bets on any single unproven treatment), THEN I may stop one treatment at a time, to see which has made the difference.

I'd like to see the results of a 3 stage trial of patients taking 10 treatments. Just how exactly would you determine what helps and in what order to wean yourself off those that you may consider are not helping?

[gibbledygook]

The 33% reduction in relapses is documented in a variety of research notes published in medical journals and derive from trial data. For example:

Rev Med Interne. 2010 Aug;31(8):575-80. Epub 2010 Jun 25.
[Current treatment of multiple sclerosis].
[Article in French]
Gout O, Bensa C, Assouad R.
Source
Service de neurologie, fondation ophtalmologique A. de Rothschild, 25-27, rue Manin, 75019 Paris, France. ogout@fo-rothschild.fr
Abstract
Since commercialisation of the first immunomodulatory drug (IMD) for multiple sclerosis (subcutaneous interferon beta-1b) in 1995, three new IMD have been on the market: two interferons (intramuscular interferon beta-1a and subcutaneous interferon beta-1a) and glatiramer acetate. These four immunomodulatory drugs have a similar efficiency: they reduce by about 30% the relapse rate of treated patients compared to untreated patients. Their effect on disability is moderate mainly due to the reduced relapse rate. Lately, in 2002, mitoxantrone was approved for aggressive relapsing-remitting MS and in 2007 the first monoclonal antibody (natalizumab) was approved for active relapsing-remitting MS.
Copyright (c) 2010 Société nationale française de médecine interne (SNFMI). Published by Elsevier SAS. All rights reserved.
PMID: 20579785 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20579785

BioDrugs. 1997 Oct;8(4):317-30.
Interferon-beta-1a: A Review of its Pharmacological Properties and Therapeutic Potential in Multiple Sclerosis.
Holliday SM, Benfield P.
Abstract
The presumed but as yet unspecified autoimmune-mediated basis for the pathogenesis of multiple sclerosis has led to attempts to modify the immune system of patients with this disease based on general and selective approaches. The rationale for using interferon-beta for the treatment of multiple sclerosis is based on its antiviral and complex immunoregulatory activities. Interferon-beta-1a (Avonex(R)) is a recombinant molecule which is indistinguishable from natural interferon-beta derived from human fibroblasts. Its precise mechanism of action is unknown, although effects on immune system processes which have been implicated in the pathogenesis of multiple sclerosis have been documented. T cell activation and migration into the CNS is a primary process in the pathogenesis of multiple sclerosis. In vitro and in vivo, interferon-beta-1a, compared with placebo or no treatment, significantly reduced expression of T cell surface activation markers, and significantly increased CNS levels of interleukin-10 - a potent inhibitor of cell-mediated immune responses. Pharmacokinetic studies indicate that intramuscular injection is the optimal route of administration for this formulation of interferon-beta-1a. In patients with relapsing-remitting multiple sclerosis who participated in a randomised double-blind trial, interferon-beta-1a 30mug (6 MIU) administered by intramuscular injection once weekly for 2 years (n = 158), compared with placebo (n = 143), significantly extended the time to onset of sustained neurological disability. Interferon-beta-1a also reduced the rate of disease relapse by approximately one-third compared with placebo, a finding which was supported by cranial magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) data showing significant reductions in lesion number and volume. Interferon-beta-1a was well tolerated, with influenza-like symptoms making up the majority of adverse reactions. The clinical significance of the beneficial effect of interferon-beta-1a on disease progression has been endorsed by the findings of a retrospective statistical analysis of the disability outcomes data obtained in the double-blind trial. In patients with relapsing multiple sclerosis, interferon-beta-1a is the only drug that has been demonstrated to significantly slow disease progression without excessive toxicity, in addition to significantly reducing the rate of relapse - measured clinically and by MRI. Notwithstanding the absence of long term tolerability data, and data from comparative trials with other agents, interferon-beta-1a represents a promising advance in drug therapy for relapsing multiple sclerosis.
PMID: 18020522 [PubMed]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18020522

[EJC]

Here you have the constant dilemma.

A trial funded by the company wishing to sell you the drug - I can copy and paste an identical one for Copaxone, that also states the relapses reduce about 30% or so.

I've got garlic hanging over my back door, it keep vampires out. I've not seen one since I hung it there so it must be working.

These drugs are designed to treat an autoimmune issue, but you're on a Forum following CCSVI treatment and associated other treatments such as the possibility of Skeletal misalignment. You're starting to come to the conclusion along with many other PwMS that MS isn't an autoimmune problem at all. It's physical. Even CCSVI is more than likely a symptom of other physical issues than a cause.

So what good is an immune modulating drug going to do with someone who has skeletal misalignment issues.

The bottom line is, Amir feels these drugs are doing more harm than good, in his medical opinion many of these trials funded by the companies that produce the drugs are little more than a marketing exercise at best or a complete sham at worst. So if you'd like his treatment, part of his treatment is getting off the drugs. It's your call if you want to do that or not.

In Emma's case it's the best decision she ever made in her life and she is now starting to get her life back.

No one is forcing you to come of drugs, it's simply a requirement if you wish to pursue a particular line of treatment.

[gibbledygook]

Well, I'm thinking a good deal about stopping my avonex as I had just started feeling a bit better from the ballooning when I had my weekly injection and my spasticity was immediately worse again...

[EJC]

Here is a pictorial representation of Emma's progress since she started seeing Amir last December.

I went into a bit more detail about it on this thread:-

http://www.thisisms.com/forum/chronic-c ... 18706.html



Ask yourself what do you have to lose by seeing Amir?

[Amir]

As per the graph above we have developed a copyrighted system to analyse thousands of cases on the go and we hope that we can satisfy the sceptics.

From the posts above some of you prefer controlled trials etc. You are perfectly entitled to do that and you must continue to take your drugs. I have no intention of persuading even one of you otherwise.

We have found a more definitive and a less dangerous method of treatment and many are choosing this method which appears to have a better and more permanent outcome than CCSVI procedures. (90% of the patients I treat have had only limited short lasting relief with CCSVI procedures at a number of locations around the world)

Calling something as innocous as a piece of plastic in the mouth "dangerous" is the height of absurdity.
Hopefully we shall win your support in the near future as we present more objective results.

I hasten to add that it definitely appears that no symptom appears to be caused by any neural damage because recovery is too rapid for any neural repair to have taken place, so the demyelination myth can be dumped in the dustbin as far as I am concerned.

[CureOrBust]

As per the graph above we have developed a copyrighted system to analyse thousands of cases on the go and we hope that we can satisfy the sceptics.

Amir, I applaud you and thank you in taking the time and effort involved in trying to validate your results in a more scientific manner.

From the posts above some of you prefer controlled trials etc. You are perfectly entitled to do that and you must continue to take your drugs. I have no intention of persuading even one of you otherwise.

Again. Its a pity we have "Doctor patient confidentiality", but it only appears to go one way... You are of course entitled to your own opinion, but patients should be careful when trying to spout their physician private / personal "recommendation" as an absolute, publicly on-line.

Calling something as innocous as a piece of plastic in the mouth "dangerous" is the height of absurdity.

I have to say, I would see it as pretty innocous, however, if someone can "heal" MS using a device of this nature, would it not be possible for someone else to accidentally create one that causes the condition?

Actually, now that I think of it. You have appeared very confident that you can "see" what is "wrong" with you're (MS) patients jaw alignments on viewing them, would it be at all possible to consider making a device for another animal (monkey, mouse whatever...) to duplicate the condition? ie an animal model to match what EAE has been/is for the auto-immune theory?

I hasten to add that it definitely appears that no symptom appears to be caused by any neural damage because recovery is too rapid for any neural repair to have taken place, so the demyelination myth can be dumped in the dustbin as far as I am concerned.

Are you saying that the demylination / neural damage seen in MS cadavers is NOT what is causing MS symptoms?

[Amir]

Calling something as innocous as a piece of plastic in the mouth "dangerous" is the height of absurdity.

I have to say, I would see it as pretty innocous, however, if someone can "heal" MS using a device of this nature, would it not be possible for someone else to accidentally create one that causes the condition?

Unfortunately that is what we are perhaps dealing with a lot of the time.

Actually, now that I think of it. You have appeared very confident that you can "see" what is "wrong" with you're (MS) patients jaw alignments on viewing them, would it be at all possible to consider making a device for another animal (monkey, mouse whatever...) to duplicate the condition? ie an animal model to match what EAE has been/is for the auto-immune theory?

I wish I had the time and a few million to spare!

I hasten to add that it definitely appears that no symptom appears to be caused by any neural damage because recovery is too rapid for any neural repair to have taken place, so the demyelination myth can be dumped in the dustbin as far as I am concerned.

Are you saying that the demylination / neural damage seen in MS cadavers is NOT what is causing MS symptoms?

This has been demonstrated in many cadaver studies where the brain plaques had not caused any symptoms.

[CureOrBust]

Are you saying that the demylination / neural damage seen in MS cadavers is NOT what is causing MS symptoms?

This has been demonstrated in many cadaver studies where the brain plaques had not caused any symptoms.

But using science and mathematics, I'll go out on a limb here and say, I think its fair to say that they have found more cases of brain plaques in MS than not. Pulling up single cases, is not helpful, nor scientific.

[CureOrBust]

For those interested, I think the links in the following post may be of interest; maybe specifically those people interested in following this train of thought through a local dentist in the USA (none "Amir" recommended of course).

May I also be so bold to suggest that Amir contact the people from the post...

----------------------
edit.... whoops... forgot to include the link....

http://www.thisisms.com/forum/chronic-c ... 21066.html

[CureOrBust]

Amir, what are your thoughts on an "Aqualizer" for those not able to access your treatment at this stage? more damage than good?