Rayminder vitamin d lamp?

[tzootsi]

I just came across this web site - Rayminder - that manufactures UVB lamps. The web site does mention MS along with other conditions related to a lack of vitamin d and uvb. It seems like a legit product. Anyone have any experience with this?

http://rayminder.org/

[zjac020]

Ive wondered about lamps too. Im reading Hollicks vitamin D book, i believe it has recommendations on this type of thing. Vitamin D is definately linked to MS no doubt about it and I too believe that supplemental form of vitamin D is not exactly the same for the body as natural sunlight. Where that places a UVB lamp...im not sure.

[jimmylegs]

keep in mind the study where they put controls and FM patients in the sun, and the healthy controls' serum vit D3 levels rose while the FM patients' levels didn't. another difference between FM patients and healthy controls is their serum Mg level. ie FM patients - low normal, healthy controls high normal.

[cheerleader]

tzootsi--
We don't have experience with those lamps, since we live in so cal and get sunshine almost everyday. But UV therapy can be very helpful for those with MS.

UV B rays have been shown to reduce inflammation and modulate immune response in MS. It's more than vitamin D....

Additionally, patients with relapsing-remitting MS were treated with narrowband UVB phototherapy. Immunomodulatory effects were examined in skin biopsies, serum samples and in immune cells of the peripheral blood.
Results: Regulatory T cells (Tregs), which are induced locally in the skin-draining lymph nodes in response to UVB exposure, connect the cutaneous immune response to CNS immunity by migration to the sites of inflammation (blood, spleen, CNS). Here, they attenuate the inflammatory response and ameliorate disease symptoms. Treg-inducing tolerogenic Dendritic Cells (DCs) were further necessary for induction of this systemic immune regulation by UVB radiation since ablation of Langerhans cells abolished the UVB-induced phenotype. MS patients treated with UVB phototherapy showed an increase in induced Tregs and tolerogenic DCs accompanied by the downregulation of the T-cell effector cytokine interleukin (IL) -21. The treatment further induced elevated serum levels of vitamin D. Interpretation: Local UVB radiation of the skin influences systemic immune reactions and attenuates systemic autoimmunity via the induction of skin-derived tolerogenic DCs and Tregs.

Read more on UV rays and MS:
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com/2014/04/m ... mptom.html

Hope you find something that helps you get your rays!
cheer

[jimmylegs]

it's my understanding that oral calcitriol also increases induced tregs and tolerogenic DCs..
http://atvb.ahajournals.org/content/30/12/2317.full.pdf

and also that higher intake of vit d3 from food and supplements increases both serum 25(OH)D3 and 1,25(OH2)D3.
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/67/2/342.full.pdf

which is fortunate for those living in the far north where traditional food consumption = higher d3 levels
http://journals.cambridge.org/download. ... 152cc6112a

[cheerleader]

Not all of us have Inuit or native genetics and we are not able to get all the D we need from food.
There are benefits of UV rays, independent of vitamin D for pwMS.
Honestly, it's something to at least consider. I think a UV lamp for northerners is a really good idea, but it's a good idea to ask a doctor, too.

Increased summer sun exposure was associated with increased grey matter volume (GMV, rp=0.16, p=0.019) and whole brain volume (WBV, rp=0.20, p=0.004) after correcting for Extended Disability Status Scale in the MS group. Inclusion of 25-hydroxy vitamin D3 levels did not substantially affect the positive associations of sun exposure with WBV (rp=0.18, p=0.003) and GMV (rp=0.14, p=0.026) in the MS group.
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/810541

Ultraviolet B light attenuates the systemic immune response in central nervous system autoimmunity.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2477 ... t=Abstract

Beneficial effects of UV radiation other than via vitamin D production
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3427189/

Suppression of experimental autoimmune encephalomyelitis by 300-315nm ultraviolet light.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23747577

There is most certainly a seasonal and latitudinal aspect to MS, related to both UV and vit. D levels.
We got a nice long sunny hike in today--lots of rays.
Happy new year!
cheer

[ElliotB]

If only it was that simple!

I live in South Florida and we also get plenty of sunlight here. I am an outdoors person, always have been. Yet after living here for over 30 years I discovered my D level was low. My 3 children, all born in South Florida, have also always spent significant time outdoors, yet all 3 had low vitamin D levels. Vitamin D3 supplementation has been necessary and has resolved these issues.

And while lack of sunlight is always thought to be a contributing cause to MS, and perhaps it is, there are certain races that have minimal exposure to sunlight yet they have virtually no incidence of MS. The Eskimos are a good example. There are others.

So while I think a devise like this is worthwhile, it may not be enough.

[PointsNorth]

I bought a used SPERTI for $125. Only UBV not A.

[jimmylegs]

so to clarify, making the point about apparent defects of vit D3 absorption/utilization in magnesium insufficient individuals indicates a possible benefit of considering interactions between sunlight exposure and nutrient status. if nutrient status affects cutaneous d3 synthesis, you can imagine it also affecting other processes resulting from sun exposure. will be interesting to see the science in this area develop over time.

studies that compare efficacy of sunlight exposure vs high dose treatment with isolated vit d3 metabolites on an animal model of ms, doesn't say anything to me about whether d3-rich whole food sources might improve treatment response at effectively lower d3 doses. also, i can't see sunlight exposure having the highly ms-relevant disruptive effect on subject nutrient status, that isolated d3 supplements can (and i'm not referring only to calcium, which is the focus of most research i've seen to date). i suspect impaired response with high dose vit d3 supplementation has to do with disregard for nutrient interactions associated with oral intake. here too it will be interesting to see the science evolve.

elliot do you happen to know if your sun-exposed low-d3 family members were meeting daily intake targets for all essential nutrients that interact with vit d3?

i should think anyone buying a lamp may as well get the most bang for their buck, via working to ensure optimal essential nutrient status at the same time.

[ElliotB]

"....meeting daily intake targets for all essential nutrients that interact with vit d3"

No idea. I did start all three on a good multi in addition to the D3 as well as an Omega 3 supplement. All three seem to be doing fine at this point. Considering the amount of sun exposure all three get, it was disappointing news to me to say the least.

I also get a lot of sun and am taking high doses of D3 yet my D3 level is only in the high normal range.

[jimmylegs]

well, they're not alone: http://press.endocrine.org/doi/abs/10.1210/jc.2006-2250 sun doesn't do the trick all by itself!

so if not sure about all nutrients that interact with d3, how about just for magnesium? if you haven't yet, and would care to do a dietary assessment, here's a list of healthy magnesium rich foods with amounts per serving. should get you started figuring out what you're getting each day http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... #foodchart

for any readers who don't know, daily recommended intakes for mag maintenance are around 300(f)-400(m) mg/d. varies with age: http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/fn-an/nutrition/ ... bl-eng.php

the WHO reports that in many developed countries worldwide, individuals fall short of dietary targets.

when taking supplemental vit d3, mag intake should be higher. i generally think of 600 as a good number to go for (without being able to cite a specific evidence-based recommendation as yet). the best i can do so far, is show the positive association between higher mag status and serum d3, in similar conditions of d3 intake from sun and diet:

Determinants of vitamin D status in patients with hip fracture and in elderly control subjects13
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/46/6/1005.full.pdf
Sunshine score and dietary and biochemical data from 125 patients with hip fracture and from 74 elderly control subjects
.........................................................control subjects....patients
Vitamin D intake (IU/d)..........................114 ± 44............116 ± 63
Serum Magnesium (mmol/L)......................0.82 ± 0.07........0.76 ± 0. 12
Serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D (nmol/L).........32.9 ± 13.6........18.5 ± 10.6
.....subgroup w low sunshine score.............24.3 ± 9.1.........13.3 ± 5.7
Serum l,25-dihydroxyvitamin D (pmal/L)....105 ± 31............79 ± 46
quite interesting. similar d3 intakes, different mag status, very different d3 status. with low sun exposure, controls with their better mag status have almost double the serum vit d3 levels. and if you dig into the full text, table 2, you can see that the pattern repeats in the medium and high sun exposure subgroups. all those mag levels are brutal, mind you. you want to be more like 0.95-1.1 mmol/L for serum mag personal aside: correcting my mineral deficits *more than tripled* my serum response to a similar dose of oral d3.

a few years ago now, a randomly encountered pharmacist gave me some life-saving advice re d3 supplementation and mag timing - if supplementing d3, take half your daily mag *with* the d3, and the other half of the daily mag well away, on its own.

whether from oral intakes, sun exposure, or a sunlamp, it does seem that optimal mag status has a lot do do with making sure one's d3 regimen is successful.

[ElliotB]

Thanks for the info. I am going to evaluate my Magnesium consumption and will adjust as necessary. I do take some but after reading some of the info you posted, possibly not enough.

[jimmylegs]

no problem

[cheerleader]

I just came across this web site - Rayminder - that manufactures UVB lamps. The web site does mention MS along with other conditions related to a lack of vitamin d and uvb. It seems like a legit product. Anyone have any experience with this?

http://rayminder.org/

here's more on why UV is important, independent of vitamin D levels, from a doctor.
It's an entertaining 10 minute TED talk w/almost a million views.


honestly...the role of UV in human health/disease is more than just D levels. Please watch. UV lamps and sunshine are valuable for us. Give it 10 minutes.
I'm going out to get my rays,
cheer

[jimmylegs]

i would like to emphasize for any new readers to this thread that in spite of the importance of making the most of d3 synthesis from sunlight, and the related discussion on mag interactions above, that there is in fact no argument about whether sunlight exposure influences only d3, or delivers other benefits.

to reiterate:

... if nutrient status affects cutaneous d3 synthesis, you can imagine it also affecting other processes resulting from sun exposure... i should think anyone buying a lamp may as well get the most bang for their buck, via working to ensure optimal essential nutrient status at the same time.