Red Meat Causes MS - link to report

[Jaded]

I just saw this on The Overcoming MS website - George Jelinek's


https://overcomingms.org/news-research/ ... ates-dont/

Makes for interesting reading....

J.

[ElliotB]

This is not a surprise considering the source. Would you expect any less from a website that promotes a diet which contains no meat and no fats including dairy.

Per Jelinek's website:

"Several long-term studies show a close connection between saturated fats and the development and progression of MS. People with MS who avoid saturated fats (such as meat or dairy fat) but consume unsaturated fats (such as those from fish and flax) typically have reduced progression of the disease – and in many cases experience minimal effects from it."

I don't necessarily disagree with the idea of avoiding saturated fats. I do. But the authors don't understand that the fat composition of grass fed meat is loaded with numerous nutrients including Omega 3 fat. And is totally different to grain fed meats you find in the supermarket which is high in saturated fats and low in good fats like Omega 3.

For anyone who takes the time to investigate fat facts, you will find that (good) fats are essential to good health and there are certain fats called EFAs or essential fattry acids that are, well, essential to good health, and can only be found in the fats of grass fed meats, certain wild caught seafood and fish, and of course in supplement form.

I know there are many people doing well on the Jelinek, Swank and similar diets that promote eliminating all or pretty much all meat from their diet. But there are many doing well on high good fat diets that include grass fed meats (such as the Wahls Diet and Real Diet of Man diet) too.

And consider these facts, many consider that the consumption of meat spurred rapid growth of the human brain and man's intelligence. Meat was an integral part or early man's diet. Also consider that Eskimos are pretty much the only population group on the planet that has zero incidence of MS, and have survived many, many, many generations on an ultra high 'good' fat diet (blubber). Also consider that many contend that lack of sunlight a major factor in the development of MS. Yet the Eskimos are probably exposed to the least amount of sunlight of anyone on earth.

Here is an interesting article about the Inuits, titled "The Inuit Paradox...How can people who gorge on fat and rarely see a vegetable be healthier than we are?"

http://discovermagazine.com/2004/oct/inuit-paradox

One exerpt from that article:

"Today, when diet books top the best-seller list and nobody seems sure of what to eat to stay healthy, it’s surprising to learn how well the Eskimo did on a high-protein, high-fat diet."

And yes, I am on a high good fat diet and have been for 1 1/2 years, and consume about 2lbs of meat a day (grass fed of course).

[vilnietis]

ElliotB,
would you eat the meat if you won't be able to find or afford grass fed meat?

[ElliotB]

Hi vilnietis. No, I would not eat non-grass fed meat under any circumstances and don't recommend anyone eat regular meat or farm raised seafood/fish.

Since the price of meat has skyrocketed in the past few years, the fattier/cheaper cuts of grass fed meats are not that much more than supermarket prices for 'regular' meats. And since the nutrition is in the fat, those are the type of cuts you would want to consume (that is what I do).

I am fortunate to have a couple of local stores that sell a limited amount of grass fed meats, and between my online source and them, I am able to keep my freezer well stocked on a reasonable budget. And sometimes, grass fed meats can be less expensive than supermarket meats. Our local stores often have sales, and keep in mind that even supermarkets in some markets are starting to carry a small selection of reasonably priced grass fed items and prices have been coming down a bit in recent months.

One of the local stores that I shop at carries a variety of meats from Australia, many are grass fed in general are very, very reasonably priced. Australian meats are excellent, probably among the best tasting, tenderest and healthiest available anywhere. Because of exchange rates of the dollar, Australian meats are quite favorably priced.

[Jaded]

Well in fairness the study was not conducted by anyone connected to Jelinek but I think there is further research required.

I do eat red meat occasionally - organic. I am not sure it is grass fed. Maybe I should find another source that is. But I do lapse from the non-dairy no-red-meat diet I am mostly following.

[Thomas]

ElliotB: Here is the same study hosted on another website: http://msj.sagepub.com/content/early/20 ... 2.abstract

[ElliotB]

Organic does not mean grass fed. Grass fed meat is just that, grass fed. While organic meat can be grass fed, if it is not clearly marked grass fed, it is not.

I have yet to read a study that states grass fed meat is bad for you.

So how good are other options:

Here is an article on Gluten (wheat):

11 WAYS GLUTEN AND WHEAT CAN DAMAGE YOUR HEALTH

http://paleoleap.com/11-ways-gluten-and ... ur-health/

Although this article is posted on a Paleo site, the information contained within it is readily available - the general conclusion is that although gluten can be tolerated by humans, it likely should not be consumed by humans.

Here is one on corn:

THE UNHEALTHIEST VEGETABLE?

http://q.equinox.com/articles/2013/08/corn


And what about vegetables? Virtually all vegetables have contamination by pesticides unless you grow them yourself.


In fairness, there are many unfavorable articles about the above topics as well as many favorable. There is just no consensus. The same goes for vegetarian/vegan diets. Dr. Wahls, in her book The Wahls Protocol, has a chapter dedicated to this subject (on being a vegetarian) and it is quite informative.

It only makes sense to me to eat the foods man evolved on. I am doing well and my blood work (done every 3 months since I started a high fat diet about 1 1/2 years ago) shows my health to be excellent in every way.

[Thomas]

The WHO recently classified processed meat as carcinogenic:

[jerrygallow]

I am very sympathetic to the OMS/Swank crowd since I have followed the diet pretty closely since 2007. But there has to be more to the picture. I think the reason Swank's patients did so well was that they eliminated dairy fat (in my opinion). If red meat caused MS, then why did MS only pop up about 150 years ago? Perhaps red meat that is processed under certain conditions like elliot suggested. Maybe it's the grass fed/grain fed thing. In which case, we should focus on cutting inflammatory oils like soy and corn, which cause the red meat fat to become omega 6. While Swank did not focus on cutting those types of oils, he did restrict overall oil intake and patients off set omega six with their cod liver oil supplements. There are interesting epidemiological studies though linking MS consistently to dairy. Even agricultural workers from dairy farms get MS more often. It could be a pathogenic cause as well. While the OMS/McDougall people take it to an extreme with the meat prohibitions, people on those kinds of diet do often eat fish. Swank noted that fisherman rarely got MS. Same for people who lived in coastal regions of Norway. Yet the people who lived inland on the farms got MS ten times more often. I don't eat red meat. But then again, I never really did, other than hamburgers. I hated the taste of steak and pork. So who knows.

[MSbro]

If red meat caused MS (I mean despite decades of research there still isn't a known cause of MS) then the vast majority of the population would have MS but it doesn't. How can anyone say that any one food, combination of foods or particular event causes MS when the cause simply is not known. It's all speculation and we see "studies' done by many different people proving or disproving their theories.

Because MS effects people in so many different ways I feel that MS is a combination of different scenarios. But that is only an opinion, shared by some and dismissed by others. The most popular theory is that MS is an automimmune disease but again, nobody has ever been able to prove that. But that idea feeds the drug companies who continue to crank out their immune system altering drugs. Great for revenue generation but what has it done for MS patients for decades? Some studies say a lot while others say nothing. Sound familiar when it comes to MS?!

[Thomas]

If red meat caused MS (I mean despite decades of research there still isn't a known cause of MS) then the vast majority of the population would have MS but it doesn't. !

Nobody is saying that everyone who eats red meat gets ms. What they're saying is that maybe red meat increases the risk for developing ms, in the same way that tobacco smoking increases the risk for lung cancer and an unhealthy diet increases the risk for obesity and heart problems.

[MSbro]

Nobody is saying that everyone who eats red meat gets ms. What they're saying is that maybe red meat increases the risk for developing ms, in the same way that tobacco smoking increases the risk for lung cancer and an unhealthy diet increases the risk for obesity and heart problems.

Perhaps but how does one even come to the conclusion that red meat "might" increase the risk for developing MS when nobody knows yet what causes the disease in the first place?!

[David1949]

I'm not sure how much you can infer from this article. In humans about 1 person in 1 thousand gets MS. So if the ratio is the same in monkeys you would have to look at 1000 monkeys to find 1 with MS. And MS can be difficult to diagnose even in humans. Usually it is done by MRI, or spinal tap, and/or clinical evaluation. So how many monkeys get MRIs or spinal taps, or clinical evaluations? Probably none.

Furthermore the age of onset for human MS is typically early to mid thiry's for RRMS and maybe 10 years later for PPMS. How many monkeys even live that long?

I would not discourage anyone from going on a diet free of red meat if that's what they want. But far more evidence would be needed before anyone can realistic claim that would it prevent or cure MS.

[Thomas]

Perhaps but how does one even come to the conclusion that red meat "might" increase the risk for developing MS when nobody knows yet what causes the disease in the first place?!

You do an epidemiological study. You compare people with ms with a control group without ms and see if you can find statistically significant risk factors.

[MSbro]

You do an epidemiological study. You compare people with ms with a control group without ms and see if you can find statistically significant risk factors.

They have been doing statistical studies of every kind imaginable with MS patients for decades. And yet they have not come up with anything definitive during this time other than "tendencies", "possibilities", and other "ies" which really haven't proven conclusive. I know the researchers have tried to put some kind of stamp on MS for a long time in order to try and determine some kind, any kind of common denominator but so far something that can be proven has been elusive.