Red Meat Causes MS - link to report

[Thomas]

Tthank you for posting this link Jaded. It is a very interesting study!

[ElliotB]

The link is NOT to a study, just an educated 'guess' by a Dutch professor.

" Dr Bert t’Hart has proposed...."



There are soooooooo many theories on what causes MS. The fact is that at this time, no one knows for sure.

[Thomas]

I'm sorry, you are right - it is not a study but the personal viewpoint of Prof. Bert A. ‘t Hart, PhD.

[cheerleader]

Very interesting hypothesis!
Certainly could be one of many issues affecting blood brain barrier permeability in MS.
Red meat contains heme–iron from blood, which white meat doesn’t have. Heme converts to the toxic chemical N-nitroso in our guts, which then mutates endothelial cells.

Dr. Swank was certainly on to something by removing red meat. We now have the science of endothelial permeability to back up his observation of capillary fragility in those with MS.

I wrote up a blog post on N-nitroso, to explain the recent WHO press release on red and processed meats. Hope it helps others understand the science. http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com/2015/10/s ... lines.html

cheer

[ElliotB]

"Dr. Swank was certainly on to something by removing red meat."

Not everyone agrees, especially Dr. Wahls (and yes, there are others).

Around the same time Swank was presenting his diet to the MS community, a group in the UK demonstrated similar successes of a high good fat diet (it was called The ARMS diet). Judy Graham outlines this in one of her books. The importance of a diet rich in EFA (Essential Fatty Acids) should not be downplayed. Few will disagree that EFAs are essential to good health.

It must be understood as well that not meats are created equal. There is scientific evidence that grass fed meats are indeed healthy for human beings and is the food that man evolved on. Most will agree that SATURATED FATS needs to be reduced as much as possible. Grain fed animals, beef or otherwise (including grain fed, farm raised fish/shrimp) have unhealthy fats within them.


"We now have the science of endothelial permeability to back up his observation of capillary fragility in those with MS."

In layman's terms, what does this mean?


"Red meat contains heme–iron from blood, which white meat doesn’t have"

What type of "white meat" are you referring to? Poultry? Fish?

[cheerleader]

Hi Elliot--

Red meat contains higher levels of heme (iron from blood) which creates N-Nitroso in the gut. N-Nitroso is a carcinogen and it kills cells, like endothelial cells that line our gut and blood brain barrier. Even grass fed beef from happy cows have heme. It's not about what they eat or the fat, it's about the heme. Look, I know Dr. Wahls recommends it---I'm just saying that it creates N-Nitroso and oxidation, which is linked to cancer and endothelial dysfunction.
http://cancerpreventionresearch.aacrjou ... 2/177.full
http://blogs.plos.org/publichealth/2014 ... -evidence/
http://www.consumer.org.my/index.php/fo ... a-diabetes

Red meat is red because it has higher content of myoglobin and heme
https://www.exploratorium.edu/cooking/m ... color.html

Red meat generally contains both more heme iron and free iron than other fresh meat or fish, and heme iron is largely responsible for the color of red meat. Heme may catalyze the formation of carcinogenic N-nitroso compounds in rat models (Bastide, Pierre, & Corpet, 2011). Heme iron also promotes carcinogenesis through increased cell proliferation in the mouse mucosa by inducing lipid oxidation (IJssennagger et al., 2013).

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 4014000564


Dr. Swank saw that the capillaries of people with MS were leaking blood particles into skin--he called it "capillary fragility." He didn't have the science of the endothelium in the 1950s. That's what I was referring to----endothelial cell death from N-nitroso allowing for leaky gut and leaky blood brain barrier (permeability) It's on my blog, with links to research.
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com/2015/10/s ... lines.html

hope that explains it better---
but honestly, what ever works for you. Carry on!
cheer

[jerrygallow]

as far as I'm concerned, Dr. Wahls' diet is only anecdotal, and is irresponsible to promote. There is no published data to support her claims (other than a subjective reduction in fatigue). She appears to be the only one who benefits from her eating pattern.

[ElliotB]

"She appears to be the only one who benefits from her eating pattern"

Sorry, you are mistaken.


cheerleader, I see no information on grass fed meats in the links you provide. I am not a scientist nor a doctor but I have learned enough through my research to know there is a significant difference between grass fed and grain fed meats when it comes to nutrition and health benefits. In fact, you made the statement "Red meat is red because it has higher content of myoglobin and heme", grass fed meats are typically on the purple side, not so red and look quite different color wise to their grain fed counterparts (and the marbling is totally different as well). There is a HUGE visual and nutritional difference between the two.

Also, the recent WHO press release you refer to on red and processed meats refers only to grain fed meats.


Also, I believe that all the diets that limit or eliminate red meats recommends omega 3 fat which is, among other nutrients, extremely high in grass fed meats.

The bottom line is that MANY people are benefiting health wise by the consumption of grass fed meats and diets high in grass fed meat without any grains and dairy. - those who take the time to do the research know.

[cheerleader]

Elliot--
all beef and lamb contains heme (red, purple--both are a DARK color) It is an attribute of the meat, which is not affected by what the animal eats. Heme is highest in beef and organ meats...no matter the diet of the animal.

If paleo works for you, GREAT! I know Dr. Wahls. and her program is successful for many people. She's a wonderful scientist and human being. But Jeff's doing just fine on Swank and a gluten free, dairy free Meditteranean Diet.
He's almost 9 years passed dx, w/no MS progression, no new lesions, no gray matter atrophy.
He's not going paleo any time soon, because he's found his path...it's up to the individual to decide,
and it sounds like you have! You don't need to convince me, just explaining why the World Health Organization made the cancer data public---it is because of N-Nitroso produced in our guts by heme and processed meats. All in my blog post.
stay well,
cheer

[ElliotB]

The fact is that no one really knows for sure what works and what doesn't. I know two people that were diagnosed well over 10 years ago and do absolutely nothing for their health and are doing fantastic overall.

Statistically, 50% or more of those diagnosed with RRMS will do OK without any intervention of any kind. Considering about 10 to 20 percent of people with MS have a benign course of the disease, most will do OK regardless of what they eat, how much they exercise, etc. So again, there is no real way of knowing if there is truly anything we can do to alter the course of the disease. I would like to think that we can...

By the way, I don't do Paleo as some of the foods on Paleo simply don't make sense to me to eat. I am basically on an all meat (fatty grass fed of course) diet with a very limited supply of home grown pesticide free green vegetables, sweet potatoes and homemade sauerkraut (and a host of supplements). And yes, I am dairy and gluten free.