Has anyone tried magnesium threonate? There was an interesting article from Life Extension Foundation that stated that it helps improve neuroplasticity.
http://www.lifeextension.com/Magazine/2 ... ng/Page-01
Magnesium threonate
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lyndacarol
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Re: Magnesium threonate
I have not tried magnesium threonate, I have been satisfied with taking magnesium glycinate and Epsom salt baths for years. Your post and info from Life Extension tempt me to give it a try.NHE wrote:Has anyone tried magnesium threonate? There was an interesting article from Life Extension Foundation that stated that it helps improve neuroplasticity.
http://www.lifeextension.com/Magazine/2 ... ng/Page-01
Dr. Joseph Mercola has talked about magnesium for years and as recently as last month: http://articles.mercola.com/sites/artic ... ealth.aspx
He described (1/19/2015) the various forms of magnesium and touts the advantages of magnesium threonate as having a "superior ability to penetrate the mitochondrial membrane, and maybe the best magnesium supplement on the market."
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/artic ... iency.aspx
He offers Magnesium L-Threonate: http://search.mercola.com/results.aspx?q=Magnesium
Re: Magnesium threonate
Regulation of structural and functional synapse density by L-threonate through modulation of intraneuronal magnesium concentration.
Neuropharmacology. 2016 Sep;108:426-39.
Oral administration of the combination of L-threonate (threonate) and magnesium (Mg(2+)) in the form of L-Threonic acid Magnesium salt (L-TAMS) can enhance learning and memory in young rats and prevent memory decline in aging rats and in Alzheimer's disease model mice. Recent results from a human clinical trial demonstrate the efficacy of L-TAMS in restoring global cognitive abilities of older adults. Previously, we reported that neuronal intracellular Mg(2+) serves as a critical signaling molecule for controlling synapse density, a key factor that determines cognitive ability. The elevation of brain Mg(2+) by oral administration of L-TAMS in intact animals plays a significant role in mediating the therapeutic effects of L-TAMS. The current study sought to elucidate the unique role of threonate. We aimed to understand if threonate acts directly to elevate intraneuronal Mg(2+), and why Mg(2+) given without threonate is ineffective for enhancing learning and memory ability. We discovered that threonate is naturally present in cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) and oral treatment with L-TAMS elevated CSF threonate. In cultured hippocampal neurons, threonate treatment directly induced an increase in intracellular Mg(2+) concentration. Functionally, elevating threonate upregulated expression of NR2B-containing NMDAR, boosted mitochondrial membrane potential (ΔΨm), and increased functional synapse density in neuronal cultures. These effects are unique to threonate, as other common Mg(2+) anions failed to have the same results. Mechanistically, threonate's effects were specifically mediated through glucose transporters (GLUTs). We also evaluated the effects of threonate in human neural stem cell-derived neurons, and found it was equally effective at upregulating synapse density. The current study provides an explanation for why threonate is an essential component of L-TAMS and supports the use of L-TAMS to promote cognitive abilities in human.
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Neuropharmacology. 2016 Sep;108:426-39.
Oral administration of the combination of L-threonate (threonate) and magnesium (Mg(2+)) in the form of L-Threonic acid Magnesium salt (L-TAMS) can enhance learning and memory in young rats and prevent memory decline in aging rats and in Alzheimer's disease model mice. Recent results from a human clinical trial demonstrate the efficacy of L-TAMS in restoring global cognitive abilities of older adults. Previously, we reported that neuronal intracellular Mg(2+) serves as a critical signaling molecule for controlling synapse density, a key factor that determines cognitive ability. The elevation of brain Mg(2+) by oral administration of L-TAMS in intact animals plays a significant role in mediating the therapeutic effects of L-TAMS. The current study sought to elucidate the unique role of threonate. We aimed to understand if threonate acts directly to elevate intraneuronal Mg(2+), and why Mg(2+) given without threonate is ineffective for enhancing learning and memory ability. We discovered that threonate is naturally present in cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) and oral treatment with L-TAMS elevated CSF threonate. In cultured hippocampal neurons, threonate treatment directly induced an increase in intracellular Mg(2+) concentration. Functionally, elevating threonate upregulated expression of NR2B-containing NMDAR, boosted mitochondrial membrane potential (ΔΨm), and increased functional synapse density in neuronal cultures. These effects are unique to threonate, as other common Mg(2+) anions failed to have the same results. Mechanistically, threonate's effects were specifically mediated through glucose transporters (GLUTs). We also evaluated the effects of threonate in human neural stem cell-derived neurons, and found it was equally effective at upregulating synapse density. The current study provides an explanation for why threonate is an essential component of L-TAMS and supports the use of L-TAMS to promote cognitive abilities in human.
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Re: Magnesium threonate
Elevation of brain magnesium prevents synaptic loss and reverses cognitive deficits in Alzheimer's disease mouse model.
Mol Brain. 2014 Sep 13;7:65.
BACKGROUND: Profound synapse loss is one of the major pathological hallmarks associated with Alzheimer's disease, which might underlie memory impairment. Our previous work demonstrates that magnesium ion is a critical factor in controlling synapse density/plasticity. Here, we tested whether elevation of brain magnesium, using a recently developed compound (magnesium-L-threonate, MgT), can ameliorate the AD-like pathologies and cognitive deficits in the APPswe/PS1dE9 mice, a transgenic mouse model of Alzheimer's disease.
RESULTS: MgT treatment reduced Aβ-plaque, prevented synapse loss and memory decline in the transgenic mice. Strikingly, MgT treatment was effective even when the treatment was given to the mice at the end-stage of their Alzheimer's disease-like pathological progression. To explore how elevation of brain magnesium ameliorates the AD-like pathologies in the brain of transgenic mice, we studied molecules critical for APP metabolism and signaling pathways implicated in synaptic plasticity/density. In the transgenic mice, the NMDAR signaling pathway was downregulated, while the BACE1 expression were upregulated. MgT treatment prevented the impairment of these signaling pathways, stabilized BACE1 expression and reduced sAPPβ and β-CTF in the transgenic mice. At the molecular level, elevation of extracellular magnesium prevented the high Aβ-induced reductions in synaptic NMDARs by preventing calcineurin overactivation in hippocampal slices.
CONCLUSIONS: Our results suggest that elevation of brain magnesium exerts substantial synaptoprotective effects in a mouse model of Alzheimer's disease, and hence it might have therapeutic potential for treating Alzheimer's disease.
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Mol Brain. 2014 Sep 13;7:65.
BACKGROUND: Profound synapse loss is one of the major pathological hallmarks associated with Alzheimer's disease, which might underlie memory impairment. Our previous work demonstrates that magnesium ion is a critical factor in controlling synapse density/plasticity. Here, we tested whether elevation of brain magnesium, using a recently developed compound (magnesium-L-threonate, MgT), can ameliorate the AD-like pathologies and cognitive deficits in the APPswe/PS1dE9 mice, a transgenic mouse model of Alzheimer's disease.
RESULTS: MgT treatment reduced Aβ-plaque, prevented synapse loss and memory decline in the transgenic mice. Strikingly, MgT treatment was effective even when the treatment was given to the mice at the end-stage of their Alzheimer's disease-like pathological progression. To explore how elevation of brain magnesium ameliorates the AD-like pathologies in the brain of transgenic mice, we studied molecules critical for APP metabolism and signaling pathways implicated in synaptic plasticity/density. In the transgenic mice, the NMDAR signaling pathway was downregulated, while the BACE1 expression were upregulated. MgT treatment prevented the impairment of these signaling pathways, stabilized BACE1 expression and reduced sAPPβ and β-CTF in the transgenic mice. At the molecular level, elevation of extracellular magnesium prevented the high Aβ-induced reductions in synaptic NMDARs by preventing calcineurin overactivation in hippocampal slices.
CONCLUSIONS: Our results suggest that elevation of brain magnesium exerts substantial synaptoprotective effects in a mouse model of Alzheimer's disease, and hence it might have therapeutic potential for treating Alzheimer's disease.
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Re: Magnesium threonate
Enhancement of learning and memory by elevating brain magnesium.
Neuron. 2010 Jan 28;65(2):165-77.
Learning and memory are fundamental brain functions affected by dietary and environmental factors. Here, we show that increasing brain magnesium using a newly developed magnesium compound (magnesium-L-threonate, MgT) leads to the enhancement of learning abilities, working memory, and short- and long-term memory in rats. The pattern completion ability was also improved in aged rats. MgT-treated rats had higher density of synaptophysin-/synaptobrevin-positive puncta in DG and CA1 subregions of hippocampus that were correlated with memory improvement. Functionally, magnesium increased the number of functional presynaptic release sites, while it reduced their release probability. The resultant synaptic reconfiguration enabled selective enhancement of synaptic transmission for burst inputs. Coupled with concurrent upregulation of NR2B-containing NMDA receptors and its downstream signaling, synaptic plasticity induced by correlated inputs was enhanced. Our findings suggest that an increase in brain magnesium enhances both short-term synaptic facilitation and long-term potentiation and improves learning and memory functions.
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Neuron. 2010 Jan 28;65(2):165-77.
Learning and memory are fundamental brain functions affected by dietary and environmental factors. Here, we show that increasing brain magnesium using a newly developed magnesium compound (magnesium-L-threonate, MgT) leads to the enhancement of learning abilities, working memory, and short- and long-term memory in rats. The pattern completion ability was also improved in aged rats. MgT-treated rats had higher density of synaptophysin-/synaptobrevin-positive puncta in DG and CA1 subregions of hippocampus that were correlated with memory improvement. Functionally, magnesium increased the number of functional presynaptic release sites, while it reduced their release probability. The resultant synaptic reconfiguration enabled selective enhancement of synaptic transmission for burst inputs. Coupled with concurrent upregulation of NR2B-containing NMDA receptors and its downstream signaling, synaptic plasticity induced by correlated inputs was enhanced. Our findings suggest that an increase in brain magnesium enhances both short-term synaptic facilitation and long-term potentiation and improves learning and memory functions.
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lyndacarol
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Re: Magnesium threonate
Essential Nutrient Interactions: Does Low or Suboptimal Magnesium Status Interact with Vitamin D and/or Calcium Status? (2016)
Andrea Rosanoff, Qi Dai, and Sue A Schapses
http://advances.nutrition.org/content/7/1/25.abstract
Abstract
Although much is known about magnesium, its interactions with calcium and vitamin D are less well studied. Magnesium intake is low in populations who consume modern processed-food diets. Low magnesium intake is associated with chronic diseases of global concern [e.g., cardiovascular disease (CVD), type 2 diabetes, metabolic syndrome, and skeletal disorders], as is low vitamin D status. No simple, reliable biomarker for whole-body magnesium status is currently available, which makes clinical assessment and interpretation of human magnesium research difficult. Between 1977 and 2012, US calcium intakes increased at a rate of 2-2.5 times that of magnesium intakes, resulting in a dietary calcium to magnesium intake ratio of >3.0. Calcium to magnesium ratio <1.7 and >2.8 can be detrimental, and optimal ratios may be ∼2.0. Background calcium to magnesium ratios can affect studies of either mineral alone. For example, US studies (background Ca:Mg >3.0) showed benefits of high dietary and supplemental magnesium for CVD, whereas similar Chinese studies (background Ca:Mg <1.7) showed increased risks of CVD. Oral vitamin D is widely recommended in US age-sex groups with low dietary magnesium. Magnesium is a cofactor for vitamin D biosynthesis, transport, and activation, and vitamin D and magnesium studies both showed associations with several of the same chronic diseases. Research on possible magnesium and vitamin D interactions in these human diseases is currently rare. Increasing calcium to magnesium intake ratios, coupled with calcium and vitamin D supplementation coincident with suboptimal magnesium intakes, may have unknown health implications. Interactions of low magnesium status with calcium and vitamin D, especially during supplementation, require further study.…
In human adults, whole-body magnesium content is ∼24 g (1 mol). Approximately half of this magnesium is present in bone and the other half is found in soft tissue, with <1% present in blood. Serum magnesium represents ∼0.3% of whole-body magnesium. Although the measurement of serum magnesium is useful in medical diagnoses of clinically severe magnesium deficiency, it may not reliably represent whole-body magnesium status. The healthy human body tightly regulates blood magnesium concentrations, maintaining a "normal" range even in times of low dietary magnesium intakes and/or excessive magnesium excretion. Both bone and soft tissue intracellular magnesium concentrations may be depleted (or depleting) while serum/plasma magnesium concentrations remain in the "healthy" range.
Full text free: http://advances.nutrition.org/content/7/1/25.long
Andrea Rosanoff, Qi Dai, and Sue A Schapses
http://advances.nutrition.org/content/7/1/25.abstract
Abstract
Although much is known about magnesium, its interactions with calcium and vitamin D are less well studied. Magnesium intake is low in populations who consume modern processed-food diets. Low magnesium intake is associated with chronic diseases of global concern [e.g., cardiovascular disease (CVD), type 2 diabetes, metabolic syndrome, and skeletal disorders], as is low vitamin D status. No simple, reliable biomarker for whole-body magnesium status is currently available, which makes clinical assessment and interpretation of human magnesium research difficult. Between 1977 and 2012, US calcium intakes increased at a rate of 2-2.5 times that of magnesium intakes, resulting in a dietary calcium to magnesium intake ratio of >3.0. Calcium to magnesium ratio <1.7 and >2.8 can be detrimental, and optimal ratios may be ∼2.0. Background calcium to magnesium ratios can affect studies of either mineral alone. For example, US studies (background Ca:Mg >3.0) showed benefits of high dietary and supplemental magnesium for CVD, whereas similar Chinese studies (background Ca:Mg <1.7) showed increased risks of CVD. Oral vitamin D is widely recommended in US age-sex groups with low dietary magnesium. Magnesium is a cofactor for vitamin D biosynthesis, transport, and activation, and vitamin D and magnesium studies both showed associations with several of the same chronic diseases. Research on possible magnesium and vitamin D interactions in these human diseases is currently rare. Increasing calcium to magnesium intake ratios, coupled with calcium and vitamin D supplementation coincident with suboptimal magnesium intakes, may have unknown health implications. Interactions of low magnesium status with calcium and vitamin D, especially during supplementation, require further study.…
In human adults, whole-body magnesium content is ∼24 g (1 mol). Approximately half of this magnesium is present in bone and the other half is found in soft tissue, with <1% present in blood. Serum magnesium represents ∼0.3% of whole-body magnesium. Although the measurement of serum magnesium is useful in medical diagnoses of clinically severe magnesium deficiency, it may not reliably represent whole-body magnesium status. The healthy human body tightly regulates blood magnesium concentrations, maintaining a "normal" range even in times of low dietary magnesium intakes and/or excessive magnesium excretion. Both bone and soft tissue intracellular magnesium concentrations may be depleted (or depleting) while serum/plasma magnesium concentrations remain in the "healthy" range.
Full text free: http://advances.nutrition.org/content/7/1/25.long
Re: Magnesium threonate
Efficacy and Safety of MMFS-01, a Synapse Density Enhancer, for Treating Cognitive Impairment in Older Adults: A Randomized, Double-Blind, Placebo-Controlled Trial.
J Alzheimers Dis. 2015;49(4):971-90.
BACKGROUND: Cognitive impairment is a major problem in elderly, affecting quality of life. Pre-clinical studies show that MMFS-01, a synapse density enhancer, is effective at reversing cognitive decline in aging rodents.
OBJECTIVE: Since brain atrophy during aging is strongly associated with both cognitive decline and sleep disorder, we evaluated the efficacy of MMFS-01 in its ability to reverse cognitive impairment and improve sleep.
METHODS: We conducted a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled, parallel-designed trial in older adult subjects (age 50-70) with cognitive impairment. Subjects were treated with MMFS-01 (n = 23) or placebo (n = 21) for 12 weeks and cognitive ability, sleep quality, and emotion were evaluated. Overall cognitive ability was determined by a composite score of tests in four major cognitive domains.
RESULTS: With MMFS-01 treatment, overall cognitive ability improved significantly relative to placebo (p = 0.003; Cohen's d = 0.91). Cognitive fluctuation was also reduced. The study population had more severe executive function deficits than age-matched controls from normative data and MMFS-01 treatment nearly restored their impaired executive function, demonstrating that MMFS-01 may be clinically significant. Due to the strong placebo effects on sleep and anxiety, the effects of MMFS-01 on sleep and anxiety could not be determined.
CONCLUSIONS: The current study demonstrates the potential of MMFS-01 for treating cognitive impairment in older adults.
Note: MMFS-01 = magnesium threonate.
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J Alzheimers Dis. 2015;49(4):971-90.
BACKGROUND: Cognitive impairment is a major problem in elderly, affecting quality of life. Pre-clinical studies show that MMFS-01, a synapse density enhancer, is effective at reversing cognitive decline in aging rodents.
OBJECTIVE: Since brain atrophy during aging is strongly associated with both cognitive decline and sleep disorder, we evaluated the efficacy of MMFS-01 in its ability to reverse cognitive impairment and improve sleep.
METHODS: We conducted a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled, parallel-designed trial in older adult subjects (age 50-70) with cognitive impairment. Subjects were treated with MMFS-01 (n = 23) or placebo (n = 21) for 12 weeks and cognitive ability, sleep quality, and emotion were evaluated. Overall cognitive ability was determined by a composite score of tests in four major cognitive domains.
RESULTS: With MMFS-01 treatment, overall cognitive ability improved significantly relative to placebo (p = 0.003; Cohen's d = 0.91). Cognitive fluctuation was also reduced. The study population had more severe executive function deficits than age-matched controls from normative data and MMFS-01 treatment nearly restored their impaired executive function, demonstrating that MMFS-01 may be clinically significant. Due to the strong placebo effects on sleep and anxiety, the effects of MMFS-01 on sleep and anxiety could not be determined.
CONCLUSIONS: The current study demonstrates the potential of MMFS-01 for treating cognitive impairment in older adults.
Note: MMFS-01 = magnesium threonate.
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Re: Magnesium threonate
NHE wrote:Has anyone tried magnesium threonate? There was an interesting article from Life Extension Foundation that stated that it helps improve neuroplasticity.
http://www.lifeextension.com/Magazine/2 ... ng/Page-01
I have tried Mag threonate (neuro mag) from life extension and Magtein. It does not seem to help for me. I have tried them all.. Currently using Good State Ionic magnesium liquid. Hope it helps a bit.
Thanks for the info...HUD
Re: Magnesium threonate
Hi HUD,HUD45 wrote:I have tried Mag threonate (neuro mag) from life extension and Magtein. It does not seem to help for me. I have tried them all.. Currently using Good State Ionic magnesium liquid. Hope it helps a bit.
Thanks for sharing your experience. How much of the Mg-threonate did you take per day and for how long?
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lyndacarol
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Re: Magnesium threonate
Interactions between magnesium and vitamin D: possible implications in the immune system. (1996)
H McCoy, MA Kenney
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9140864
Abstract
Evidence clearly shows that magnesium and vitamin D [1 alpha, 25-dihydroxyvitamin D3; 1,25(OH)2D3] independently affect numerous aspects of the immune system. Although no reports of interactive effects on components of immunity have been found, there is evidence that the two nutrients interact in other biosystems, sometimes involving calcium. Furthermore, this paper identifies numerous places in common where both magnesium and vitamin D reportedly affect immune function. Fundamental sites for possible interaction within the immune system include cell transformation, regulation of the cell cycle, stabilization of nuclear DNA/chromatin, production of reactive oxygen species (ROS), and effects on enzymatic and hormonal actions. The presence of different functional, chemical forms of both of the nutrients within biological systems, and the availability of synthetic drug relatives of both to introduce into such systems, complicate interactive studies because such differing forms may not necessarily interact similarly or interact at all within the immune system or elsewhere. Regardless, there are compelling reasons to believe that examining interactions between magnesium and vitamin D within the immune system could prove rewarding, especially since the physiological statuses of both nutrients in human populations are less than optimum. Such human populations include the elderly whose immune function may be compromised.
H McCoy, MA Kenney
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9140864
Abstract
Evidence clearly shows that magnesium and vitamin D [1 alpha, 25-dihydroxyvitamin D3; 1,25(OH)2D3] independently affect numerous aspects of the immune system. Although no reports of interactive effects on components of immunity have been found, there is evidence that the two nutrients interact in other biosystems, sometimes involving calcium. Furthermore, this paper identifies numerous places in common where both magnesium and vitamin D reportedly affect immune function. Fundamental sites for possible interaction within the immune system include cell transformation, regulation of the cell cycle, stabilization of nuclear DNA/chromatin, production of reactive oxygen species (ROS), and effects on enzymatic and hormonal actions. The presence of different functional, chemical forms of both of the nutrients within biological systems, and the availability of synthetic drug relatives of both to introduce into such systems, complicate interactive studies because such differing forms may not necessarily interact similarly or interact at all within the immune system or elsewhere. Regardless, there are compelling reasons to believe that examining interactions between magnesium and vitamin D within the immune system could prove rewarding, especially since the physiological statuses of both nutrients in human populations are less than optimum. Such human populations include the elderly whose immune function may be compromised.
Re: Magnesium threonate
Hi NHE....NHE wrote:Hi HUD,HUD45 wrote:I have tried Mag threonate (neuro mag) from life extension and Magtein. It does not seem to help for me. I have tried them all.. Currently using Good State Ionic magnesium liquid. Hope it helps a bit.
Thanks for sharing your experience. How much of the Mg-threonate did you take per day and for how long?
I was taking neuro mag 2 capsules (288 mg) 3 times per day. I tried it for 3 months with no perceived benefit. Plus I had my blood levels tested and it did not seem to increase mag levels significantly.
HUD
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lyndacarol
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Re: Magnesium threonate
On the topic of magnesium testing… Only about 1% of the body's magnesium is in the blood; the other 99% is intracellular – inside the cells of various tissue (muscle, bone). The body will rob magnesium from the cells in order to maintain, at all costs, the level in the blood. It is possible for the serum magnesium level to be "normal" while, at the same time, there can be a deficiency in the cells.HUD45 wrote:Hi NHE....NHE wrote:Hi HUD,HUD45 wrote:I have tried Mag threonate (neuro mag) from life extension and Magtein. It does not seem to help for me. I have tried them all.. Currently using Good State Ionic magnesium liquid. Hope it helps a bit.
Thanks for sharing your experience. How much of the Mg-threonate did you take per day and for how long?
I was taking neuro mag 2 capsules (288 mg) 3 times per day. I tried it for 3 months with no perceived benefit. Plus I had my blood levels tested and it did not seem to increase mag levels significantly.
The underestimated problem of using serum magnesium measurements to exclude magnesium deficiency in adults; a health warning is needed for "normal" results. (2010)
Y Ismail, AA Ismail, AA Ismail
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20170394
"Conclusions: The perception that "normal" serum magnesium excludes deficiency is common among clinicians. This perception is probably enforced by the common laboratory practice of highlighting only abnormal results. A health warning is therefore warranted regarding potential misuse of "normal" serum magnesium because restoration magnesium stores in deficient patients is simple, tolerable, inexpensive and can be clinically beneficial."
On the ionic form of magnesium supplementation…
Magnesium in Man: Implications for Health and Disease (2015)
Jeroen HF de Baaij et al.
http://physrev.physiology.org/content/95/1/1
THX1138 posted Dr. Carolyn Dean's (expert on magnesium) comments (http://www.thisisms.com/forum/natural-a ... ml#p231485):
"Mg2 ions are what the body requires at the cellular level. Knowing that, a lot of companies are now selling ionic magnesium. However, an ion is very unstable and will bind with other ions in the body making it unavailable to the cell."
Re: Magnesium threonate
Was this serum magnesium or red blood cell magnesium? I've read that serum magnesium level is tightly controlled and magnesium supplements usually don't raise it.HUD45 wrote:I was taking neuro mag 2 capsules (288 mg) 3 times per day. I tried it for 3 months with no perceived benefit. Plus I had my blood levels tested and it did not seem to increase mag levels significantly.
Re: Magnesium threonate
The clinical trial cited above found that 30% of the trial participants on Mg-threonate were non-responders and that a response to Mg-threonate could be predicted by RBC magnesium. In effect, if RBC magnesium didn't rise, then the patients experienced no cognitive benefits. Other factors might be off in these patients affecting the absorption of Mg-threonate.NHE wrote:Was this serum magnesium or red blood cell magnesium? I've read that serum magnesium level is tightly controlled and magnesium supplements usually don't raise it.HUD45 wrote:I was taking neuro mag 2 capsules (288 mg) 3 times per day. I tried it for 3 months with no perceived benefit. Plus I had my blood levels tested and it did not seem to increase mag levels significantly.
Re: Magnesium threonate
Thanks Lynda and NHE for the great info.... I have tried the Carolyn Dean ionic Mag product as well.
Keep searching for what works
HUD
Keep searching for what works
HUD
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