I have a coworker whos husband has MS. He has never taken any crab meds just Immunocal. His chief complaint was gait and balane issues which caused him to fall often prior to taking Immunocal.
He had marked improvement with Immunocal. To see if it was the Immunocal or something else he stopped taking Immunocal for a few months. His prior issues returned. He went back on Immunocal and they went away. He has been on Immunocal continuously since and has been doing fine. He hasn't had MRIs in a long while so they can't say if Immunocal has helped with regards to lesions.
There website isn't that helpful and outside of her husbands experiences all I have been able to gather from her is the cost of Immunocal. Anyone here have experience with Immunocal? Good or bad please share.
Rick
Immunocal
I have to admit I was a little surprised to see that there are nine abstracts on Immunocal in Pubmed. It elevates levels of glutathione, which is a good thing in general. Elevating glutathione is the primary reason why alpha-lipoic acid and NAC have been investigated for MS. Here is one of the abstracts.
Effect of supplementation with a cysteine donor on muscular performance.
J Appl Physiol. 1999 Oct;87(4):1381-5.
Lands LC, Grey VL, Smountas AA.
Division of Respiratory Medicine, McGill University Health Centre-Montreal Children's Hospital, Montreal, Quebec, Canada H3H 1P3. larry.lands@muhc.mcgill.ca
Oxidative stress contributes to muscular fatigue. GSH is the major intracellular antioxidant, the biosynthesis of which is dependent on cysteine availability. We hypothesized that supplementation with a whey-based cysteine donor [Immunocal (HMS90)] designed to augment intracellular GSH would enhance performance.
Twenty healthy young adults (10 men, 10 women) were studied presupplementation and 3 mo postsupplementation with either Immunocal (20 g/day) or casein placebo. Muscular performance was assessed by whole leg isokinetic cycle testing, measuring peak power and 30-s work capacity. Lymphocyte GSH was used as a marker of tissue GSH. There were no baseline differences (age, ht, wt, %ideal wt, peak power, 30-s work capacity). Follow-up data on 18 subjects (9 Immunocal, 9 placebo) were analyzed.
Both peak power [13 +/- 3.5 (SE) %, P < 0.02] and 30-s work capacity (13 +/- 3.7%, P < 0.03) increased significantly in the Immunocal group, with no change (2 +/- 9.0 and 1 +/- 9.3%) in the placebo group. Lymphocyte GSH also increased significantly in the Immunocal group (35.5 +/- 11.04%, P < 0.02), with no change in the placebo group (-0.9 +/- 9.6%).
This is the first study to demonstrate that prolonged supplementation with a product designed to augment antioxidant defenses resulted in improved volitional performance.
Pubmed URL
Effect of supplementation with a cysteine donor on muscular performance.
J Appl Physiol. 1999 Oct;87(4):1381-5.
Lands LC, Grey VL, Smountas AA.
Division of Respiratory Medicine, McGill University Health Centre-Montreal Children's Hospital, Montreal, Quebec, Canada H3H 1P3. larry.lands@muhc.mcgill.ca
Oxidative stress contributes to muscular fatigue. GSH is the major intracellular antioxidant, the biosynthesis of which is dependent on cysteine availability. We hypothesized that supplementation with a whey-based cysteine donor [Immunocal (HMS90)] designed to augment intracellular GSH would enhance performance.
Twenty healthy young adults (10 men, 10 women) were studied presupplementation and 3 mo postsupplementation with either Immunocal (20 g/day) or casein placebo. Muscular performance was assessed by whole leg isokinetic cycle testing, measuring peak power and 30-s work capacity. Lymphocyte GSH was used as a marker of tissue GSH. There were no baseline differences (age, ht, wt, %ideal wt, peak power, 30-s work capacity). Follow-up data on 18 subjects (9 Immunocal, 9 placebo) were analyzed.
Both peak power [13 +/- 3.5 (SE) %, P < 0.02] and 30-s work capacity (13 +/- 3.7%, P < 0.03) increased significantly in the Immunocal group, with no change (2 +/- 9.0 and 1 +/- 9.3%) in the placebo group. Lymphocyte GSH also increased significantly in the Immunocal group (35.5 +/- 11.04%, P < 0.02), with no change in the placebo group (-0.9 +/- 9.6%).
This is the first study to demonstrate that prolonged supplementation with a product designed to augment antioxidant defenses resulted in improved volitional performance.
Pubmed URL
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Glutathione is an important antioxidant and metals chelator. Also balances nitric oxide and aids circulation. Very helpful for MS patients...
This product is a glutathione precursor, probably why it does OK going thru the intestinal tract.
As dignan noted, a glutathione precursor that many MS patients may already take (and is very affordable) is N-acetyl cysteine -
AC
http://www.healthline.com/galecontent/glutathioneGlutathione is produced in the human liver and plays a key role in intermediary metabolism, immune response and health, though many of its mechanisms and much of its behavior await further medical understanding. It is also known as gamma-Glutamylcysteineglycine and GHS. It is a small protein composed of three amino acids, cysteine, glutamic acid and glyceine. Glutatione is found in two forms, a monomerthat is a single molecule of the protein, and a dimmer that is two of the single molecules joined together. The monomer is sometimes called reduced glutathione, while the dimmer is also called oxidized glutathione. The monomer is the active form of glutathione. Oxidized glutathione is broken down to the single molecule by an enzyme called glutathione reductase.
Glutathione, in purified extracted form, is a white powder that is soluble in water and in alcohol. It is found naturally in many fruits, vegetables, and meats. However, absorption rates of glutathione from food sources in the human gastrointestinal tract are low.
This product is a glutathione precursor, probably why it does OK going thru the intestinal tract.
As dignan noted, a glutathione precursor that many MS patients may already take (and is very affordable) is N-acetyl cysteine -
AC
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
I've taken NAC n acetyl cysteine for years it is reasonably priced at vitacost.
there are a lot of companies that sell these designer supplements many of them in a multi level marketing pattern--don't know if immunucal does that--but it inherently increases the cost of the product, and it makes some very very relentless sellers.
I tried a stem cell enhancing product one time and it turns out on that product if you calculate the costs of the person who sells you paying the person above them etc 52% of the cost of your product is going to pay these "upline" people. You were essentially paying the person who sold the concept of selling the product to the guy you bought it from, and the guy who sold it to THAT guy, all the way back 7 people. What they really wanted ME to do is to take those 4 pills 3 times a day and sell all my MS friends on it too, so that I would start a really rich new down line and make everyone behind me very rich for no effort at all.
In the case of the stem product I was assured that with MS, because the needs are so great, 12 capsules a day would need to be taken so many bottles a month would be needed at a cost of 250 dollars.
but they always have these stories of people who dramtically got better with MS on this stuff; in my case I was told of a young woman in my state that I could even call if I wanted who did it at the "regular" dose of 3 capsules a day and had nothg at 3 months but when she switched to 4 capsules a day, why she is back to jogging on the treadmill!!...........uh huh.
Newly diagnosed was she? I inquire...Yes she was very bad couldn't even walk they were thinking nursing home, but now she JOGS!! Ok right I think to myself this poor fool knows nothing about MS at all. It is perfectly plausible that this young woman's family would be terrified of her first relapse and start thinking about nursing homes.......perfectly understandable her dad "researched" on the internet and found this stuff..........perfectly typical that her first relapse resolved very well...and by 4 months she had recovered an immense amount of function.
The company had no actual research into MS but they did have research that showed the product actually did increase stem cell production-in 2 hours you had a 30% increase in circulating stem cells that faded over the next hours. I am very interested in stem cells so I was interested in that product for that reason alone and wanted to try it.
But it turns out there is a no name supplement for a fraction of the cost at vitacost. It also uses blue algae from Klamath lake. Not proven in that pubmed study because they specfically used the name product, and the stem people assured me there was pure danger in using the other product because it was not purified the way their product was nor was it calibrated, why i would not even know if I was getting the dose they say on the bottle! Plus theirs was proven! (in actuality only showing an increase in stem cells by 30%--not proven to help MS; big difference)
I used the name brand at the doses they recommended for 3 months then I tried the other product for a while I could not say either one was helping, it seemed to make me tired so I gave up on the idea overall.
The concept is interesting, that a certain supplement might increase stm cell production, but 30% over ambient amounts is infintismally small compared to the bolus of stem cells you would get in an actual stem cell treatment where they take your stems and grow them in a lab for reintroduction. That having been said, trying the suplment for some months where the slight increase is stumilated DAILY seemed like it might work just as well....
Anyway the MS population is very very ripe for these multi level supplement markets. If they can convince a person like that young lady who was having her first MS relapse the product is responsible for her recovery she will be a stunningly effective advocate for their product because the average person sees MS as a terrible aggressive disease and its "cure" this way as an incredible endorsement of what the stuff can do....for everyone
Thus her story becomes legend at the seminars and every multi level marketer attending will be remembering if they hear of any MSers, they'll be sure and get to them to tell them of this great development.
In 18 years of MS you do find yourself going down some interesting paths along the way. I would like to share with you TIMS friends that when you encounter these things do consider that no-name brands of such things may be a better choice if the concept really interests you.
Part of your well being is your financial health.
there are a lot of companies that sell these designer supplements many of them in a multi level marketing pattern--don't know if immunucal does that--but it inherently increases the cost of the product, and it makes some very very relentless sellers.
I tried a stem cell enhancing product one time and it turns out on that product if you calculate the costs of the person who sells you paying the person above them etc 52% of the cost of your product is going to pay these "upline" people. You were essentially paying the person who sold the concept of selling the product to the guy you bought it from, and the guy who sold it to THAT guy, all the way back 7 people. What they really wanted ME to do is to take those 4 pills 3 times a day and sell all my MS friends on it too, so that I would start a really rich new down line and make everyone behind me very rich for no effort at all.
In the case of the stem product I was assured that with MS, because the needs are so great, 12 capsules a day would need to be taken so many bottles a month would be needed at a cost of 250 dollars.
but they always have these stories of people who dramtically got better with MS on this stuff; in my case I was told of a young woman in my state that I could even call if I wanted who did it at the "regular" dose of 3 capsules a day and had nothg at 3 months but when she switched to 4 capsules a day, why she is back to jogging on the treadmill!!...........uh huh.
Newly diagnosed was she? I inquire...Yes she was very bad couldn't even walk they were thinking nursing home, but now she JOGS!! Ok right I think to myself this poor fool knows nothing about MS at all. It is perfectly plausible that this young woman's family would be terrified of her first relapse and start thinking about nursing homes.......perfectly understandable her dad "researched" on the internet and found this stuff..........perfectly typical that her first relapse resolved very well...and by 4 months she had recovered an immense amount of function.
The company had no actual research into MS but they did have research that showed the product actually did increase stem cell production-in 2 hours you had a 30% increase in circulating stem cells that faded over the next hours. I am very interested in stem cells so I was interested in that product for that reason alone and wanted to try it.
But it turns out there is a no name supplement for a fraction of the cost at vitacost. It also uses blue algae from Klamath lake. Not proven in that pubmed study because they specfically used the name product, and the stem people assured me there was pure danger in using the other product because it was not purified the way their product was nor was it calibrated, why i would not even know if I was getting the dose they say on the bottle! Plus theirs was proven! (in actuality only showing an increase in stem cells by 30%--not proven to help MS; big difference)
I used the name brand at the doses they recommended for 3 months then I tried the other product for a while I could not say either one was helping, it seemed to make me tired so I gave up on the idea overall.
The concept is interesting, that a certain supplement might increase stm cell production, but 30% over ambient amounts is infintismally small compared to the bolus of stem cells you would get in an actual stem cell treatment where they take your stems and grow them in a lab for reintroduction. That having been said, trying the suplment for some months where the slight increase is stumilated DAILY seemed like it might work just as well....
Anyway the MS population is very very ripe for these multi level supplement markets. If they can convince a person like that young lady who was having her first MS relapse the product is responsible for her recovery she will be a stunningly effective advocate for their product because the average person sees MS as a terrible aggressive disease and its "cure" this way as an incredible endorsement of what the stuff can do....for everyone
Thus her story becomes legend at the seminars and every multi level marketer attending will be remembering if they hear of any MSers, they'll be sure and get to them to tell them of this great development.
In 18 years of MS you do find yourself going down some interesting paths along the way. I would like to share with you TIMS friends that when you encounter these things do consider that no-name brands of such things may be a better choice if the concept really interests you.
Part of your well being is your financial health.
Yep !! great post... Says it all. That is why I am so gun shy about anything new supplement wise. Been down that road in the very beginning, bought two of those fancy daily dose pill containers and who knows how many different kinds of supplements fill them. Tossed out all but the basic tried and proven supplements. I now use the containers to keep seeds for the garden. Works great just taped over the individual lids and labeled the seed type. $75 worth of seeds versus ___ $ of worthless meds and sups. My choice. PLANTING A BIGGER GARDEN Got Sun !!! Spring is here and Daughter and Granddaughter coming up for a couple of weeks. Life is good... Peace Mark
Plant a BIG Garden Live in the Moment
gardens are good! organic food and all that! thanks everyone
TRUE!!!
"jimmy wishes for A WORLD WITHOUT ZINC
Jimmy: Hey, what gives?
Jimmy's Dad: You said you wanted to live in a world without zinc, Jimmy. Well, now your car has no battery.
Jimmy: But I promised Betty I'd pick her up by 6:00. I better give her a call.
Jimmy's Dad: Sorry Jimmy. Without zinc for the rotary mechanism, there are no telephones.
Jimmy: Dear God! What have I done?
Jimmy's Dad: Think again Jimmy. You see, the firing pin in your gun was made out of — yep — zinc.
Jimmy: Come back zinc, come back
come..back..zinc...come back..zinc! zinc!
ah it was all a dream. thank goodness i still live in a world of telephones, car batteries, hand guns, and many things made of zinc!"
ah hahahaha rotary mechanism
... courtesy of JIMMY - and troy mcclure...
"jimmy wishes for A WORLD WITHOUT ZINC
Jimmy: Hey, what gives?
Jimmy's Dad: You said you wanted to live in a world without zinc, Jimmy. Well, now your car has no battery.
Jimmy: But I promised Betty I'd pick her up by 6:00. I better give her a call.
Jimmy's Dad: Sorry Jimmy. Without zinc for the rotary mechanism, there are no telephones.
Jimmy: Dear God! What have I done?
Jimmy's Dad: Think again Jimmy. You see, the firing pin in your gun was made out of — yep — zinc.
Jimmy: Come back zinc, come back
come..back..zinc...come back..zinc! zinc!
ah it was all a dream. thank goodness i still live in a world of telephones, car batteries, hand guns, and many things made of zinc!"
ah hahahaha rotary mechanism
... courtesy of JIMMY - and troy mcclure...
Last edited by jimmylegs on Fri Jul 24, 2009 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.