This Is MS Multiple Sclerosis Knowledge & Support Community

Really helpful, thanks!

Nah, no black clouds, just interesting stuff. We studied a lot of those inflammation pathways in biochem, definitely seems interesting.

Sad about the tilapia. I can go for the salmon. I prefer it actually, ate it 3x a week growing up, but a bit more hit to the wallet. I guess I shouldn't be complaining though because the blood draw only cost $5 then and a $20 bill later. Only spent $25 on groceries this week, so I can use the leftovers to splurge on some proper fish from now on

Yeah, 54 dropped pretty fast but not nearly as fast as the late April 2013 179 to early August 2013 10. I'm really hoping that the supplements have slowed it down (started them in November) but I probably need to be more consistent with the 2x a day. I just really hope it's stayed up because I don't want another iron IV. I mean, I know I'll want it because it makes me feel crazy good versus the low iron fatigue, and since I only have three semesters of competitive running left, but they cost too much. Way. Honestly, I'm hoping that after college/running competitively (I'm transgender) when I start HRT I hope that the testosterone will nudge iron into becoming a non-issue.

I usually pair peas and tomatoes with beef, lately I've been on a chickpea with lemon juice kick. In general I put lemon juice on anything I even suspect contains iron. I've been wanting to start eating some pumpkin seeds, and like I said before, liver to try to get a bit more into me. I usually also try to eat some sort of red meat with plant iron foods. I think the B-vitamins in the meat helps absorb the iron? Or I could be full of it; after 7 years of this I'm probably borderline superstitious on what helps iron by now... I'm definitely interested to hear what other pairs I could do!

ok nice to hear that you have some flexibility to work the salmon back in

NO problem re better pairing ideas! check out this list of vit c rich foods: http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... #foodchart
top four of what i would consider local foods being Bell Peppers, Broccoli, Brussels Sprouts, Strawberries
tomatoes peas and lemons are quite a ways down the list. at best they have about a quarter of what you find in strawberries, more like a sixth of what's in peppers.

which plant iron foods do you tend to go for? whfoods has a great list for that too http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... #foodchart
i hadn't actually realized how much iron lentils have. i have been planning a lentil and spinach soup actually.. sounds like i better put some peppers in there as well

will be super interesting to see if some food changes can help keep you on an even keel

Of those, the tomatos, green beans, brussels sprouts, black beans, garbanzo beans, spinach (only cooked). Thanks for the links, I'll snag those lists for when I go grocery shopping tomorrow!

I have no complaints about more bell peppers and strawberries, I could be persuaded to have broccoli; those ones are always good.

Quinoa seems to have a fair bit of iron.. don't quinoa/ground beef/diced broccoli/black bean stuffed peppers sound good? I think I'll make some this weekend. And strawberries for dessert. Would frozen strawberries/fruit be just as good?

having cooked spinach in your routine can be better for nutrient density they say it's best to boil it for 1 min then drain so that you can eat it in high volumes without losing too many nutrients, or getting too much oxalic acid. same thing with swiss chard if you ever get into it, except it's a 3 min boil then drain.

i think your weekend dinner and dessert plans sound great! this looks like a readily adaptable recipe http://recipes.sparkpeople.com/recipe-d ... ipe=799094

re the strawberries, frozen veg and fruit can be better than fresh in some circumstances. the nutrient content of fresh produce goes down when it's shipped over long distances and then sits around in the store. on the other hand, frozen produce can be in better shape nutritionally at first, but can lose nutritional value over time in the freezer.

raw produce would typically be higher in vit c content compared to cooked BUT, if you cook the foods that are the absolute highest in vit C to start, then even after the losses you can still be significantly better off compared to raw foods that started out with lower vit C content. when you're working with broccoli and peppers together, with strawberries for dessert, you should be all set

Awesome. I happened to get 4 peppers at the store today. Got 3 lbs of strawberries for $5.. salmon, quinoa, pepitas, cottage cheese, 10 bean mix for soup, broccoli and more yummy stuff. I think I just like food too much.

I was looking at some of your other posts and the B6 toxicity seems interesting. Sometimes I take a half dose of my b-complex and a half dose of the cheap stuff to make it go longer, so I think I'm getting 60 mg - 110 a day. (why they put so much in I don't know?) That's definitely a lot, but it doesn't seem like way too much. I have been pretty consistent with vitamins for about 7 months now though so if it builds up that might do it. But on the other other hand I run/sweat/metabolize a lot, so it shouldn't be the problem. I guess I'm just speculating.

For now I'll focus on eating well and taking care of myself. Pretty excited to try some new food combinations.

sounds great!

i was just making some food and it occurred to me to mention, although you may have already heard it elsewhere, that cooking in cast iron can be a good idea as well.

i do the lion's share of my stovetop cooking in cast iron and i love it. even though when i was at my worst it was a bit tough to manage the weight of it.

i thought i should go look for some backup as to why it's so great. first, some science. i do consider cooking in cast iron a form of iron supplementation, above and beyond how well it cooks, and here's some research to back that up:

Iron bioavailability in green leafy vegetables cooked in different utensils
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 460300445X

next i thought i would go for something a bit more generic, and googled 'what's so great about cast iron' which turned out to be quite a bit more fun than i expected - enjoy http://www.theawl.com/2011/02/heres-why ... on-skillet

We always use cast iron back home, but I didn't realize how much of a difference there actually is. Really neat to see the data. I should scour the thrift stores for one.

Got my results back. I don't have paper copies yet, so I don't have the actual numbers, but she said they were all fine. Hoping to get copies tomorrow so I can see for myself.

I did find out my ferritin was 30 though, down from a 54 just after thanksgiving. Explains the tiredness at practice (that and school just started. I think I'll really focus on pairing foods and up my iron supplements to 2 a day.

She did tell me I should think about seeing a neurologist. Honestly not too crazy about that idea. I don't want to part with any more blood because of my iron issues. I know it's really not that much, but between it and the monthly stuff it feels like it! I'm also thinking because my symptoms are rather mild, if they test for anything further it wouldn't even show up anyway, and the same feeling I had going to the hematologist for IV iron, that I'm taking time from people way sicker. Or I'll schedule an appointment and everything will magically get better and they'll think I'm crazy. Urgh.

looking forward to seeing new results!

I went to the hematologist because I was feeling tired (my ferritin was 30 two weeks ago, yesterday it was a 12!! and my hg was 13.5 two weeks ago and a 13.0 yesterday)

They drew more blood for insurance purposes and my other counts were even worse that two weeks ago. I dunno why my RBCs are so big and why the number of 'em I have keeps dropping.

I've looked at my past labs and seen a trend in quite a few numbers.

My absolute leukocytes have been dropping (1.64 on 3/14, 1.25 on 4/14 after first iron IV, and .95 now)

Hg is pretty bad right now too, was up to a 15.1 last year, 13.0 now.

MCV has been increasing from 93.8 on 3/14 to 95.9 on 4/14, and 98.0 now.

RBCs dropping too 4.51 3/14 to 4.43 on 4/14 to 4.08 now.

WBC 3.7-11.6 x10^9/L 4.1
RBC 4.20-5.70 x10^12/L 4.08
Hgb 11.6-16.2 gm/dL 13.0
Hct 33.0-46.0 % 40.0
MCV 84.0-97.0 fl 98.0
MCH 30.0-34.0 pg 31.9
MCHC 33.0-37.0 gm/dL 32.5
RDW 11.3-14.8 % 13.0
Plt Ct 150-440 x10^9/L 244
Neutro 46.0-75.0 % 67.2
Lymph 17.0-44.0 % 23.5
Mono 2.0-9.0 % 4.9
Eos 0.0-7.0 % 2.7
Baso 0.0-1.0 % 1.2
Neutro Abs 1.8-7.7 x10^9/L 2.72
Lymph Abs 1.0-4.8 x10^9/L 0.95
Mono Abs 0.0-0.8 x10^9/L 0.20
Eos Abs 0.0-0.5 x10^9/L 0.11
Baso Abs 0.0-0.2 x10^9/L 0.05

I'm not so familiar with the numbers for a iron+TBIC panel, but here they are. 3/4/14 was right before my first iron IV.

3/4/14..........1/29/15...Standard Range
Iron
..63................55........(50-175 ug/dL)
TIBC Direct
322................295.......(250-450 ug/dL)
Iron Saturation
..20................19........(% 6-36 %)

Lucky for me they gave me another iron IV. Pretty stoked about that. 1000 mg elemental iron gets me feeling better pretty fast. I think between the lower abs leukocytes, RBCs and neuro symptoms I'm going to start taking a copper supplement. If that doesn't work, I wonder if I'm losing blood inside somehow because it can't be from my time of month (pretty much over and done in 2-3 days).

will have to take a closer look! working to a midnight deadline for today though, so just popping in to say noted, back later

Good luck on your deadline! I have two midnight deadlines coming up. Also I meant lymphocytes but I can't figure out how to edit it on me phone.

Talk to your doctor about the steady increase in your MCV (mean corpuscular volume):

MCV has been increasing from 93.8 on 3/14 to 95.9 on 4/14, and 98.0 now.

This situation with enlarged red blood cells is called macrocytosis. Ask about macrocytic anemia, if he does not bring it up.

I'll bring it up when I see him in a month. I thought macrocytic was commonly because of B12, but my last level was 1600something. Maybe taking iron supplements for 6-7 years did my body more harm than good .

fyi - commonly but not exclusively b12. low magnesium has also been linked to elevated MCV:

Dietary Magnesium Deficiency Induces Heart Rhythm Changes, Impairs Glucose Tolerance, and Decreases Serum Cholesterol in Post Menopausal Women
"Both MCH and MCHC were significantly higher during magnesium repletion than depletion; this finding probably reflects the significant decrease in MCV during magnesium repletion"
mag depletion MCVa (fL) = 93.2
mag repletion MCVa (fL) = 91.3

suninthesky wrote:I'll bring it up when I see him in a month. I thought macrocytic was commonly because of B12, but my last level was 1600something. Maybe taking iron supplements for 6-7 years did my body more harm than good .

There can be a B12 deficiency in the tissues, even when the B12 level in the blood is very good.

Macrocytosis can be a manifestation of a folate deficiency or vitamin B12 deficiency (although it is not always present with a B12 deficiency). If there is macrocytosis, the enlarged red blood cells fail to transport oxygen around the body.

In Megaloblastic Anemia (a subtype of macrocytic anemia) due to either a B12 deficiency or a folate deficiency, #1 the size of red blood cells (MCV) increases, #2 the number of red blood cells (RBC's) decreases (shown as a decrease in hematocrit), and #3 the homocysteine level increases.

If the macrocytosis is due to B12 deficiency there will be an increase in methylmalonic acid (however, taking antibiotics can affect and lower the methylmalonic acid level) AND there will be neurological symptoms. If the macrocytosis is due to folate deficiency the methylmalonic acid level will be normal and there will be no neurological symptoms.

Taking folate can disguise the macrocytosis and correct the anemia, but if the real cause of the macrocytosis and anemia is a B12 deficiency, that B12 deficiency will continue and nerve damage will progress, and symptoms may become irreversible.

I am not knowledgeable about whether "taking iron supplements does the body more harm than good" in either situation. It is important to discuss this situation with your doctor when you see him, including establishing magnesium status and possibly magnesium therapy as jimmylegs suggests.