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Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:37 pm
by Bethr
Shye, heres something that talks about the "hiding away" of iron from micro-organisms (maybe behind the blood brain barrier? Makes sense doesn't it. If we then have an oversupply of iron through environmental sources (it's added to heaps of food, in cookware, multivitamins), the iron is left in situ so to speak. I think I'd rather be slightly anaemic.
Altered Iron Metabolism Is Part of the Choroid Plexus Response to Peripheral Inflammation
F. Marques, A. M. Falcao, J. C. Sousa, G. Coppola, D. Geschwind, N. Sousa, M. Correia-Neves and J. A. Palha
Life and Health Sciences Research Institute (ICVS) (F.M., A.M.F., J.C.S., N.S., M.C.-N., J.A.P.), School of Health Sciences, University of Minho, Campus Gualtar, 4710-057 Braga, Portugal; and Program in Neurogenetics (G.C., D.G.), Department of Neurology, David Geffen School of Medicine-University of California Los Angeles, Los Angeles, California 90095
Address all correspondence and requests for reprints to: Joana Almeida Palha, Life and Health Sciences Research Institute (ICVS), School of Health Sciences, University of Minho, Campus Gualtar, 4710-057 Braga, Portugal. E-mail:
japalha@ecsaude.uminho.pt.
Iron is essential for normal cellular homeostasis but in excess promotes free radical formation and is detrimental. Therefore, iron metabolism is tightly regulated. Here, we show that mechanisms regulating systemic iron metabolism may also control iron release into the brain at the blood-choroid plexus-cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) barrier. Intraperitoneal administration of lipopolysaccharide (LPS) in mice triggers a transient transcription of the gene encoding for hepcidin, a key regulator of iron homeostasis, in the choroid plexus, which correlated with increased detection of pro-hepcidin in the CSF. Similarly, the expression of several other iron-related genes is influenced in the choroid plexus by the inflammatory stimulus. Using primary cultures of rat choroid plexus epithelial cells, we show that this response is triggered not only directly by LPS but also by molecules whose expression increases in the blood in response to inflammation, such as IL-6. Intracellular conveyors of these signaling molecules include signal transducer and activator of transcription 3, which becomes phosphorylated, and SMAD family member 4, whose mRNA levels increase soon after LPS administration. This novel role for the choroid plexus-CSF barrier in regulating iron metabolism may be particularly relevant to restrict iron availability for microorganism growth, and in neurodegenerative diseases in which an inflammatory underlying component has been reported.
The other side of the equation is anemia. When people with hemochromatosis get phlebotomized they often get into a slightly anemic state and become "iron avid". There body seems to grab and store the iron away somewhere, maybe as a response. Ferritin gets low, but the saturation can go higher again. At that point chelation may be necessary?
Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:42 pm
by Trent
I also have a florid red facial complexion with itchy pimples on my forehead which slowly dry, heal, scab and go.. A dermatologist described it as 'late onset adult excema' (sp?) At 60+? Really?
Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:46 pm
by Merlyn
Trent-I know that they are adding iron to wheat products, especially white flour (fortified!). And I gather they had so much iron to some of the breakfast cereals, magnets can pick up iron filings... I have only had one phlebotomy, very very good response especially spasticity reduction which is still holding. I would do another one tomorrow if I could, but I am going to have to watch the calcium etc., I think many of us have been very nutritionally compromised for a while, a Catch-22 if you know what I mean... iron interfering with nutrient absorption because all heavy metals interfere with nutrient displacement... heavy metals displace the lighter metals like magnesium, lithium, calcium, potassium, sodium... my suggestion is to do one, see how you feel, and don't try to correct a lifetime of iron loading in two months! I have very sore shoulders, this was starting before the phlebotomy, but seems to be worse now... think I need some calcium... I was craving cheese big-time on the IP6, I should pay more attention to my body's messages of depletion!
Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:50 pm
by Bethr
Sounds a bit like my itchy sun-induced pimples/blisters I got in January! (a pic somewhere further back in this thread). They went away almost immediately and then flared up when I went back into the sun a few weeks ago. It's been overcast here for the past week. I'm off into the sun when it comes out, to do the pimple test).
This is a very interesting piece on Hepcidin. A new easy way to measure for anemia and iron overload. The Hepcidin hormone. Another test I'd like to take (the list grows!). Hepcidin regulates iron.
New Test Measures Hepcidin, Can Help Diagnose Anaemias and Iron Disorders
NEW YORK -- August 11, 2008 -- Researchers have developed the first method to measure the hormone hepcidin. This new blood test will help clinicians manage chronic conditions such as anaemias and iron overload diseases. The report appears in the online August issue of Blood.
The new test will directly measure hepcidin, offering more information to clinicians to help diagnose conditions and monitor the levels of this important hormone in their patients, leading to more efficient management of these chronic diseases.
"We developed and validated the first serum for hepcidin, the principal iron-regulatory hormone that has been very difficult to measure," the authors wrote.
Serum hepcidin concentrations in 24 healthy subjects correlated well with their urinary hepcidin (r = 0.82). Serum hepcidin appropriately correlated with serum ferritin (r = 0.63), reflecting the regulation of both protein by iron stores.
Expected alterations in hepcidin levels were observed in a variety of clinical conditions associated with iron disturbances. Serum ]hepcidin concentrations were undetectable or low in patients with iron deficiency anaemia (ferritin <10 ng/mL), iron-depleted HFE haemochromatosis, and juvenile haemochromatosis.
Serum hepcidin concentrations were high in patients with inflammation (C-reactive protein >10mg/dL), multiple myeloma, or chronic kidney disease.
"The new serum hepcidin yields accurate and reproducible measurements that appropriately reflect physiologic, pathologic, and genetic influences, and is informative about the aetiology of iron disorders," said the authors.
SOURCE: University of California Los Angeles
Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:51 pm
by Merlyn
I just want to say that I get very cynical sometimes... I can just see some neurologist coming out very soon and saying what people with MS need is phlebotomy! Too bad they haven't come up with the idea previously... frankly, I want some credit for coming up with a link between hemochromatosis and MS and phlebotomy... as far as I know I am the first to ever suggest it... and Bethr was the first to do it! We will be proven right, a whole bunch of us are iron loading heterozygotes... but further, because I have empathy for anybody is experiencing neurodegeneration, they need to move into the Parkinson's and Alzheimer's debacle and apply the same philosophy to iron overload! And to catch it early enough, through simple iron panels, to reduce the iron by phlebotomy before it poisons the entire brain!
Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:42 pm
by shye
Bethr
thanks for the explanations re iron--makes it a tad bit more understandable.
and re: hepcidin
Serum hepcidin concentrations were high in patients with inflammation (C-reactive protein >10mg/dL)
so if hepcidin is high if have inflammation, and hepicidin regulates iron metabolism, again we touch on the inflammation theory re MS and BBB and iron depostion.
Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:58 pm
by shye
Bethr,
somehow missed your post re: iron metabolism when was writing and posting the above re your hepcidin post.
from iron metabolism:
The other side of the equation is anemia. When people with hemochromatosis get phlebotomized they often get into a slightly anemic state and become "iron avid". There body seems to grab and store the iron away somewhere, maybe as a response. Ferritin gets low, but the saturation can go higher again. At that point chelation may be necessary?
so there appears that in order to get to homeostasis re iron, there is a point below which you don't want to go with phlebotomy. How do you determine that point, so you don't move into the "iron avid" stage?
I am beginning to think we should all get iron tests, and monitor our iron--most of us i think, even if within the reference range but above midreference, should chelate the iron, esp in light of this sequestering. It doesn't want to leave us! Safest way appears to be IP6. I have started wtih it (as well as weekly EDTA chelation), and will monitor my iron, and post results. And after doing more research, so understand iron mechanics better, might donate blood--fairly easy to do here in nyc I think--I know in NY there is no restriction re:MS if you are a few weeks out of any flare up.
Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:18 pm
by shye
also Bethr
if i recall my basic bio, isn't the spleen where the old red blood cells get broken down and then residue sent out (via bile?), and what is needed (the iron) is recycled to make new RBC(in the marrow)?
So, without a spleen , where is the breakdown done? and maybe it is not as efficient, so you somehow put the iron, or some of it, in the wrong place (compounding any problems from the hemachromatosis alone)??
Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:28 pm
by Bethr
shye wrote:also Bethr
if i recall my basic bio, isn't the spleen where the old red blood cells get broken down and then residue sent out (via bile?), and what is needed (the iron) is recycled to make new RBC(in the marrow)?
So, without a spleen , where is the breakdown done? and maybe it is not as efficient, so you somehow put the iron, or some of it, in the wrong place (compounding any problems from the hemachromatosis alone)??
Yes, I'm sure it's something like that.
People with Celiac disease also get hyposplenic changes (the spleen atrophies), and anemia. So I've got that pulling me in one direction and the Hemochromatosis pulling in the other. The HH is winning

.
Combined with a whole lot of Killer-T's.....LOL.....The hemotologist will love this if he's into a bit of investigative medicine. I hope so anyway.
Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 5:57 pm
by katie45
wonder what the difference might be in those with 2 copies of the HH gene as opposed to one (carrier) over 50+ years? Also the effect of ip6 on the clearance of iron in the blood but still having the heavy stores in organs....any thoughts?
Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 7:30 pm
by katie45
found this statement in my travels today M
'The total iron binding capacity test measures how well your blood can transport iron, and the serum ferritin test shows the level of iron in the liver. If either of these tests shows higher than normal levels of iron in the body, doctors can order a special blood test to detect the HFE mutation'
So maybe the hfe mutation will show ? it's all rather confusing (and here I thought I had it all figured out!
Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 9:10 am
by Trent
I phoned my doctor today and the nurse told me that I have CYS282Tyr mutation in the HLA-H gene.
How does this fit in with the scheme of high iron as on here? I will se my doctor on Tuesday about phlebotomy. Is this still relevant?
Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:03 am
by Cece
I am looking at my blood test from a few weeks ago. The only iron-related test included was Ferritin, which came back at 55 (range 10-120 ng/ml). I have to read back through this thread some...would the other tests be tsat and iron to give a more complete picture?
Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:57 am
by Bethr
Trent wrote:I phoned my doctor today and the nurse told me that I have CYS282Tyr mutation in the HLA-H gene.
How does this fit in with the scheme of high iron as on here? I will se my doctor on Tuesday about phlebotomy. Is this still relevant?
Thats the same one my sister and I have, and Merlyn.
Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:58 am
by Bethr
Cece wrote:I am looking at my blood test from a few weeks ago. The only iron-related test included was Ferritin, which came back at 55 (range 10-120 ng/ml). I have to read back through this thread some...would the other tests be tsat and iron to give a more complete picture?
Yes, you need tsat minimum. A full panel would be best.
Cheers..........