This Is MS Multiple Sclerosis Knowledge & Support Community

want2bike wrote:If you have been reading my post you know my story so why ask? I would like to see people get their health back and that is done if you get the correct information. Not sure why me posting information is so upsetting to you. The FDA made me very sick so I think other should be aware of what they are doing. If you want to believe that the FDA is going to make the drugs safe that is your choice. They do not have a good record.

There's quite a big difference between providing information and ranting and raving and making ludicrous comments about situations you don't happen to agree with. When you start to recognize the difference then perhaps you won't get a number of posters stating how disgusting some of your comments happen to be.

Not sure what you consider ranting and raving. Just posting the information as to why the FDA is not creditable. I can understand why people who take the drugs want to believe the FDA is watching out for them. If the FDA was interested in giving us good health they would not allow policies which harm us. Let Linda Brocato explain why we can't believe the FDA. They have made many people sick.

want2bike wrote:If you have been reading my post you know my story so why ask? I would like to see people get their health back and that is done if you get the correct information. Not sure why me posting information is so upsetting to you. The FDA made me very sick so I think other should be aware of what they are doing. If you want to believe that the FDA is going to make the drugs safe that is your choice. They do not have a good record.

You have many posts, so I don't know your story. You are so keen on information, but didn't answer any of my questions. So I'll ask again: were you ever diagnosed with MS?

The FDA made you sick? How, pray tell, did this organization do that? And, do you buy your tinfoil hats in bulk?

To you the FDA is the boogeyman, but you are so trusting of the supplement industry and those willing to sell you a cure. Why? At least the FDA has some accountability.

Your posting isn't upsetting to me, because what you post isn't information - it's just nonsense. I just think this sad. Though I only recently registered on this site, I have been following it for some time. It seemed to be a good support website for people suffering from MS. But, this is the internet, so I guess it was inevitable.

want2bike wrote:Not sure what you consider ranting and raving. Just posting the information as to why the FDA is not creditable. I can understand why people who take the drugs want to believe the FDA is watching out for them. If the FDA was interested in giving us good health they would not allow policies which harm us. Let Linda Brocato explain why we can't believe the FDA. They have made many people sick.

You really don't appear to understand what I and other posters are saying to you! Posting information is one thing. Calling different organizations and doctors liars, evil and bad for your health is another. Most people here know the shortcomings of the FDA and what Big Pharma is capable of doing. The Supplemental Industry has the same type of corruption. You need to learn how to express an opinion without resorting to name calling.

want2bike wrote:I am not going to do a study on the 100 examples you listed. Take too much time to go into all of them and I am not interested in what the medical community has to say about treating disease.

I didn't expect to extensively research 100 drugs. I was just trying to make a point.

Let me just make one example.

Read a little bit about promyelocytic leukemia

You can start with the wikipedia article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acute_prom ... c_leukemia

Can I at least get you to concede that for this one relatively uncommon disease, allopathic medical doctors and pharmaceutical treatment is beneficial?

If you start tasting your own blood and developing fevers and petechiae all over your body, you plan to see out a chiropractor or naturopath? Really?

I will concede that you should get all the information for treating any illness. If YOU decide the drug is the way to go then do it. The problem we have today is people are not getting the information. They just listen to their doctor that they need the drug and believe he is telling them the truth. I believe no one. I do not believe the MD, OD, drug makers, supplement makers, and especially the government agencies. I want the freedom to investigate everything and decide for myself what is good for me. Unfortunately the FDA does not want me to have that freedom. They want to put Fluoride in my water, GMO in my food and mercury in my mouth. They want to force me to take the vaccines. Then when they make most to the country sick they tell us we have bad genes or it comes with old age. I had to get very sick before I figured out what was going on and I never what to go back to that place. My health is too important to let someone else take care of it. I try and get as much information on a subject as I can and make my own decision as to what form of treatment is for me.

The drug you mention I am not familiar with and do not want to spend time investigating it. You mentioned DMSA in your list of 100 and I am familiar with that drug. It is used for detoxifying heavy metals from the body. There are better ways of detoxifying the body. If you had a high exposure to lead or mercury and wanted to get it out quickly it might be appropriate. The problem with DMSA is it doesn't only take the lead or mercury out of the body but it will also take the calcium, magnesium, zinc and other necessary nutrients out of the body. Another problem with DMSA is the path way it uses is the urine. This can be hard on the kidneys. A more natural way of detoxifying the body is with the vitamins and minerals found in the fruits and vegetables. There are safer supplements with fewer side effects which can be taken to detoxify the body and that is the protocol I followed with Dr. Tom McGuire's method of detoxification. The method worked for me without the use of DMSA. It would take too much time for me to investigate all the drugs you mention but if someone has a problem related to the drugs you mention; they should google the information and decide for themselves how to treat the disease. It has been my experience believing the doctor is the wrong way to go.

http://www.greatplainslaboratory.com/ho ... soning.pdf

http://www.evenbetterhealth.com/heavy-m ... atment.php

It has been my experience believing the doctor is the wrong way to go.

And for you that has been an unfortunate experience and left a bitter taste. But what I and others seem to have trouble with is your comments about doctors, government agencies and all drug companies being liars, evil and no good for the health of the nation. You can't paint everyone with the same brush, especially in this day and age and trying to do so on a public forum will only draw the kind of responses you have been getting.

Stick with your opinions and leave the bashing alone....you'll end up getting more respect.

i agree with want2bike on much of what he is trying to get across. he is passionate because he practiced what he is preaching and for him he has great results. what would he be if he did not share? as he said-"if it helps one person"

I wish you wouldn’t encourage Want2Bike…

Its great if there regimen has helped them, the issue is it does not apply to MS. By the sounds of their story they got drunk and pinched a nerve while “out dancing” like a typical hypochondriac and over user of meds (which they say they were prior to seeing the light of a decent diet and exercise) they went to the ER and a doctor (not a neuro) said off hand “similar to MS symptoms” so they ran home and googled like crazy.

The issue is not that they want to share information or that they want to make people better. It’s that they are stating the medical industry is trying to keep you sick, your municipality is trying to poison you with fluoride, the government is disguising airliners to poison the air with chemtrails, etc. etc. Every bit of interesting information they post has the shadow of the insane nature of these other posts. But I suppose people just have to be aware that this is the internet, filled with conspiracy theorists and amateur scientists, where your own common sense is key. But newly diagnosed and scared often lack this, and the crazy ranting’s of this individual may encourage them to avoid all medical assistance.

Not sure how you know what my problem was Mr. Kronk since you did not examine me. Never drank alcohol then and do not drink it now so your assumption is incorrect. When my PCP told me it was old age and I should take the muscle relaxers, blood pressure medicine, and learn to live with it. That would have been pretty stupid of me to have accepted his diagnoses. Disease is caused by oxidative stress. Let Dr. Bergman explain it to you. People like Dr. Bergman gave me my health back and if you listen to him you can get your health back. If you believe the FDA and AMA you will never get better. JAMA tells us they kill lots of people. Everyone needs to know it is all about the diet and not about the drugs.

want2bike wrote:Everyone needs to know it is all about the diet and not about the drugs.

So this is true for all conditions? Dr. Bergman would treat promyelocytic leukemia with dietary recommendations? How about acute appendicitis? How about Hunter's Syndrome?

No one here is debating the importance of diet in human health. For some conditions, the effect is dramatic and very obvious (type II diabetes, coronary artery disease, peripheral vascular disease, hypertension, chronic kidney disease, kidney stones, dental disease, et cetera). A lot of these disease are quite common, so the effect of diet is very important for human health overall. In other conditions, the importance of diet is present but less obvious (i.e. certain autoimmune diseases, certain cancers).

In yet other conditions, diet has no proven importance whatsoever (i.e. traumamatic frature, promyelocytic leukemia). Of course, future discoveries could show a relationship between diet and these diseases as well.

would you disagree with this? Again, if you develop fevers and petechiae and start tasting your own blood in the back of your throat, do you want to see Dr. Bergman or a hematologist?

I'm not suggesting that traditional medicine is more important than or better than lifestyle modifications or naturopathic approaches. I am saying that it depends on what disease we are talking about.

Kronk wrote:I wish you wouldn’t encourage Want2Bike…

Its great if there regimen has helped them, the issue is it does not apply to MS. By the sounds of their story they got drunk and pinched a nerve while “out dancing” like a typical hypochondriac and over user of meds (which they say they were prior to seeing the light of a decent diet and exercise) they went to the ER and a doctor (not a neuro) said off hand “similar to MS symptoms” so they ran home and googled like crazy.

The issue is not that they want to share information or that they want to make people better. It’s that they are stating the medical industry is trying to keep you sick, your municipality is trying to poison you with fluoride, the government is disguising airliners to poison the air with chemtrails, etc. etc. Every bit of interesting information they post has the shadow of the insane nature of these other posts. But I suppose people just have to be aware that this is the internet, filled with conspiracy theorists and amateur scientists, where your own common sense is key. But newly diagnosed and scared often lack this, and the crazy ranting’s of this individual may encourage them to avoid all medical assistance.

look, this is a discussion site here about this so called ms. if this is his opinion and he's not attacking anyone individually what is so bad or why does it pose such a threat. some have their own thoughts and theories, for my personal thoughts on my symptoms so named ms, it's spinal structure and damage after a trauma. which mainstream chooses to ignore. "but, now thanks mainly to the internet", dr.'s such as dr. noda that performed ctos surgery and people with ms, parkinson's etc. improved or their symptoms went away. but, guess what, instead of mainstream med. applauding or supporting this, they practically
ruined the man financially and went for the throat. there's the chiropractic and small studies of surgical spinal corrections that improved and some cured here in the usa-was it brought to the front lines "NO" why not???? why when i send mri's and x-rays to neurosurgeons and everyone of them reply's to come in they see the problems and can help yet when i get there and they see on the chart "MS" they send me off. one surgeon in pitt. did agree with the studies i presented him, he noted my spinal issues that could be corrected--BUT, the only way he would do it was if a ms neurologist agreed it would help. now, for 20 yrs. the only thing a neuro. ever offered as treatment was a fist full of drugs--do you really think that would ever happen? and it didn't. there's someone on tims right now that had some symptoms that were being blamed on the ms thing go away but the neurosurgeon does not want named yet. my guess he's trying to get his duckies in order and stay under the radar because this isn't gonna fly well with some in charge "but hopefully not all". when i came here i took a lot of heat and
remarks and the others that weren't interested politely did or
did not read and moved on.

and for the newly diag. afraid as i was -- they better become aware of options, pro.'s and con.'s. because the monopoly big money and power has in this world is pretty damn scarey. unless a person searches and looks at all angles they are not gonna hear of such things from many dr.'s. for instance the adds on tv who can compete with that? even though i have never taken an ms drug in 20 yrs. because on my medical records "which i thought were to be kept private and protected" i regulary get sent to me mainly by biogen, advertisements for these ms drugs. -- i'd like to have just their money spent on advertiseing.

i don't feel it's right to bash someone who is trying to make people aware or inform them of things that helped them. and had he not done his searching sounds like it paid off for him. and he's not makeing a dime. if you don't believe in conspiracy or greed or monopoly's or whatever then you should be promoting gmo grown food, more pesticides, more chemical fertilizers, more hormon grown meats, drink plenty of polluted water whatever floats your boat. and for lunch maybe go to subway for some of their tasty bread or better yet just go buy a yoga mat so you have something to nibble on.

and yes, there are good dr.'s and some good med.'s. we need them. science is great doing amazing things. some for the good and some for the not so good.

well, until someone takes my freedom of speech away i'm useing it. just as you did. to incinuate someone here is a nut case or something is rude and mean spirited. he was not and did not attack any of you personally. with all the influence big money, big govt. has i'd not worry too much that new ones to this ms thing will be pushed over the edge by want2bike. i'd be more concerned about some of the drugs they may be given. how's that one advertised on tv go--"if you are suicidal or know of someone who commited suicide after takeing such and such drug-----

I don't feel it's right to bash someone who is trying to make people aware or inform them of things that helped them

It's too bad that Wanna doesn't appear to know the difference between informing people or giving opinions as opposed to calling people an/or organizations liars, cheats and bad for your health!! He also totally generalizes his comments and applies them to everyone. Is it not surprising that others, including me, take exception to such comments and challenge his credibility?!

Nobody is questioning free speech here...everyone is welcome to his/her opinion. What we are questioning is stupid and general comments of which Wanna has made several. Stick to information and opinion and leave out the stupidity on this forum. Most of the readers here are above that kind of communication.

Blossom: I'm challenging bike's claims because I find them to be unreasonable.

No one is challenging your freedom of speech or bike's.

and yes, there are good dr.'s and some good med.'s. we need them. science is great doing amazing things. some for the good and some for the not so good.

-Your position is fundamentally different from Bike's. I cannot even get Bike to concede that pharmaceuticals have any utility for any medical conditions. As far as I am concerned, you are on my side of this particularly argument.

As for the evidence for the association between trauma and MS, PM me the links and I'll take a look.

-C

NHE wrote:

centenarian100 wrote:

NHE wrote:I might disagree with you on # 27 especially after reading the following two books...

Overdosed America: The Broken Promise of American Medicine by Dr. John Abramson.
http://www.overdosedamerica.com/

Selling Sickness by Ray Moynihan and Alan Cassels.
http://www.thisisms.com/forum/reading-n ... c2131.html

ok; perhaps fosamax isn't the greatest example, but do you care to explain your position? The two links don't mention fosamax.

The Overdosed America site does have some info, you just have to do a little digging and read the chapter excerpts.

http://www.overdosedamerica.com/2007/03 ... er-13.html

Ok; I certainly see your point. There is a certain deception in statistics like relative risk in general, be it with relative risk or fracture or relative risk of multiple sclerosis relapse.

The absolute risk reduction is very modest unless the patient has a high absolute risk. I don't know if his cost/benefit analysis is accurate anymore ($300,000 to prevent one hip fracture) as fosamax is now generic.

Overall, I agree with you that this was not a very good example of the point I was trying to make.

How do you feel about the other 99 examples?