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LadyGazelle wrote:If my son can make copies on his computer, I'll be able to mail them to Dr. Sclafani. I'd like to know when I should get my name on the waiting list, but June or July would probably when I'll be ready physically (after Dr. A) - although I'm always ready mentally!

LadyGazelle, the time to get on his waiting list is yesterday! Holly has some instructions here http://www.thisisms.com/ftopicp-145457.html#145457 and also in the registration form she wanted people to state which doctor and which month/year they wanted. So you would put SCLAFANI and JULY 2011 if that is the case. All the best.

NZer1 wrote:Hi Dr,
A question, can touch testing for muscle stresses be enough to test for alignment of Atlas and upper spine?
When John checks my alignment, I am lying face down on the table. He starts at the tail bone and is gently putting one hand on the spine, pressing lightly and working upwards to feel for muscle tension. He works up to the base of my neck in this way and it takes only a minute or so. Then I am asked to sit on the end on the table and he slightly has me tilt forward my head. He then checks by touch the tension in my neck with slight rotations side to side of my head. Again this takes only seconds. In effect the 'test takes only a minute or two.
If there are any adjustments required he does them with the activator as he goes up the spine testing for muscle tension which I can feel when he finds a tension spot.
At present I have lost faith in the work he is doing and there is a break period of about three weeks over the Xmas/new year period before I return for treatment.
I do not feel any benefit from the adjustments he has done, in general I have had more tension in areas after adjustments have been made and this wears off, to be back to 'normal' after a day or two. So I am thinking either there is other problems or missed problems.
Any insights or questions or advice?
Regards Nigel.

Hello Nigel,

Your chiropractor is not doing any type of upper cervical work that I am familiar with. He said he uses toggle recoill which is not an upper cervical method but a method of delivery. For example, I was taught knee chest upper cervical using toggle recoil. Other methods use toggle recoil or variations of it. So far the doctor has done nothing even remotely resembling upper cervical methods of correction. Upper cervical doctors don't use the activator hammer on the upper cervical spine. Personally, although I had one, I don't like the activator or activator methods for any part of the spine. The problem is that you are not being treated with upper cervical care so there is no way to determine its effectiveness.

Hi Dr.
I was wondering if you can explain something. I have been going to the atlas adjuster now for a couple of months and as I mentioned in a previous post, I am noticing some improvements.
I do wonder if you can explain why the tests that I had recently (the thermal scans, etc.) to compare to the one I had when I first started are pretty different.
My first time around my C1 was a 6.0 on the thermal and the second time was down to 2.8 which is quite better. But the first time around from the C2 all the way to the lumbar was really good. Now that the C1 is much better, the C2 down to thru the thoracic is in the red zone. 1.? for alot of them.
He did explain before we did it the second time to not be surprised if it shows a little worse. He says sometimes that happens.
I thought maybe things are opening up and that is just part of the healing process?
The Dr. seemed to think overall things looked better. My blood pressure dropped quite a bit and neck is alot more flexible now.
Do you have an opinion on this?
Thanks.
Kathy

Hello Kathy,
You have had curvature problems for many years which your body had grown accustomed to. Shifting the weight of your approximately ten pound head on your neck changes the loads acting on the connective tissues and muscles further down in the neck and spine. They will eventually adjust to the new improved and corrected position.

Thanks Dr for your feedback, its funny how life plays out the same game throughout your lifetime. I have had the similar experience of people who are good at talking up their skills but when they are asked about their training and ongoing learning and questioning of their learning, they are sadly lacking the basic skill of checking that what they have been taught or told is correct or most important, "working".
I am still curious about the method John uses to assess whether I have need for adjustment. I understand that 26 years of working as a Chiropractor has repeated outcomes, I am wondering how such a 'brief' time touch checking muscle tension can indicate issues, especially if they are life time misalignments.
If I had the money I would ask for xrays to 'see' what the spine alignment is visually like after the treatments to date and how that compares with the method of assessing me, naturally I would ask for impression before xrays were taken. Post Xmas is not a time of financial wellness with a family of four children and my wife is the sole income earner, unfortunately.
I understand from your comment that stopping treatment from John is your advice?
Thanks Dr, Nigel

Nigel,
Unfortunately, the doctor is not using a toggle recoil technique as claimed and he is not doing specific upper cervical adjustments.

Some upper cervical techniques such as the one I learned use anatomical notation to describe the misalignment such as an ASR, which would indicate anterior superior on the right. More recent methods such as NUCCA and Atlas Orthogonal use orthogonal notation to describe the misalignment in exact angles to determine the proper vector for adjustment. The angles are taken from the slope, convexity and convergence of the condyles of the skull as well as their overall circumference.

There are other options in chiropractic but they haven't been investigated and tested as much as specific upper cervical which has been around for about seventy years.

There is a chiropractic college in New Zealand. They may know an upper cervical doctor in your area.

Thanks Dr.
There is a Chiro School that John has connections with.
I did inquire about Upper Cervical originally and was told there is only one in NZ (Wellington) and it is a 7 hour journey from here!
John was adamant he could do Upper Cervical treatment when I first met with him and viewed my xrays.
I don't know what to do at present and will ponder.
I have asked John for feedback, by email, as to why I am no different after the treatment so far. I am hoping he will professionally reply.
Regards Nigel

Nigel,

If the doctor is doing specific upper cervical then what is your upper cervical listing? If he is not using anatomical listings, then what are your orthogonal notations?

You should be adjusted in either a knee chest postion (kneeling down with your head turned to the side of the listing or in side posture. Some side posture procedures, such as Blair use drop tables. Others such as AO do not. Some upper cervical methods use toggle recoil or modified toggle recoil in which the hands to make corrections others use percussion hammers. None of the upper cervical methods I know of use a hand held device like the activator, which lacks precision. Instead, AO uses a special sound wave percussion device. Some methods use a stylus. Again, neither are hand held. They are mounted on stands and precisely postioned to make the adjustment. Orthogonal methods also use a special headpiece on the table to preposition the skull before adjusting the upper cervical spine.

There is a Dr. Neil Bossenger in the Aukland. His phone number is
64(0)9 5220025. His email is neil@spinewave.co.nz. Maybe he knows an upper cervical doctor closer to you. Alternatively, if John knows how to toggle recoil but is a little rusty at upper cervical perhaps Dr. Bossenger could take and analzye the x-rays and give John the listings.

Thank you yet again Dr.
I will contact Dr. Bossenger and see what can be done.
Regards Nigel

dr. flanagan. ok, wed. had a long talk with chiro. i explained he listened. i felt with interest. i told him i was not pitting chiro. against chiro. but that it was when i found you and the knowledge and your way of explaining and reccomendations that i decided to pursue chiro. again. that i had been down the chiro. road for yrs. because i felt and still do feel that the trauma of that fall had everything to do with my symptoms. but, being treated wrongly even when treated by a chiro. was like peeing in the ocean and waiting for a flood. so, we agree, that even though some know a lot about some things noone knows everything about all things.

fri. he had looked at my x-rays. he did the foot reflex thing, kinda like the neuro.'s do-also the arms hands etc. he checked pulse in both feet. when he saw my feet he said he could see why they thought that rsd was the culprit at one time because of purple and swelling. but when i explained things and after me laying on the table and standing and movement my feet ,which were bare, getting a more normal look i think it got his attention more.

he went over the x-rays with me and it seems he is pretty much on track with you in many ways but not completly on board-yet. the neck x-rays i feel has his attention expecially when i tilt the head back and i have better movement. he seems to agree with your pointing out to me that the messed up bottom spine is gonna mess with the neck. and pretty much bladder and leg problems. but, the neck is where the neurological symptoms are stemming from. no argument there. he is amazed that with all the places i'd been-like cleveland clinic-upmc-etc. that no neuro.'s had ever addressed something he is questioning about the neck. i got a feeling he is gonna be ordering some tests.

my gut tells me he is a keeper. his personality could be no better. he seems open minded and had checked a little about ccsvi-i gave him your book and said this will explain more but from your yrs. of study and viewpoint. what i am hoping for is sometime in the near future you two can have a little chat.

gotta tell you, here i am pretty much blasting some of the neuro.'s i've experienced wth exception to one. he got this little grin and said his wife is a neuro. but, to me that's even better because however much they may discuss work at home i'm sure they are both professional but with different views.

he did adjust some. he put blocks onder pelvis for a little while, felt whole spine with a little very light adj. and very light to neck but to me it was more like he was checking out the neck.

he wanted me back mon. but no could do. i'll go wed. and fri. then i think every other day for a while. he does not seem to have a problem with the nucca treatment either. even though that is not his training.

i know this is lengthy and i could go on about a few other things "i'm hoping for the good" but as for what i've told you so far-what are your thoughts? you are my mentor on this journey and i want to thank you again.

Hello Blossom,

The doctor sounds terrific so far. I would surely like to hear a summary of his assesment, especially of the pelvis and legs. You clearly have neurovascular tunnel syndromes in the pelvis affecting the legs. The twist in the pelvis is the culprit.

As far as a missing test is concerned, he is probably referring to a cervical MRI.

The pelvic blocks the doctor used is what I discussed previously when I had you searching for an SOT doctor in your area. They are perfect for a case like yours. The trick is in identifying your particular pelvic category, positioning you correctly on the blocks for right amount of time, as well as employing the appropriate auxilliary procedures when necessary.

when i go see the chiro, he only makes adjustments by putting pressure on my atlas with his hands, is that precise enough? but i do feel an improvement, walking(still have to walk with my cane but now it feels like walking and not just swinging my leg), lower back pains gone, and my leg length is coming closer to being equal

he gave me some of my xrays, these are from my initial visit. please interpret them-

he said my spine looks so perfect, hes gonna use it as his xray for a perfect spine. hopefully those lighted teeth arent the results from mercury amalgams because i had all my mercury amalgams pulled


in this one my spine looks like it going to one side, the right


i dont even know what im looking at


hopefully he xrays me again so i can put before and after pics

thanks

Hello Civickiller,
It only takes a little force if you use the correct lever which is the atlas vertebra or C1. The next thing you need is the right vector or line of correction.

While the bones and cartilage of your spine are in good health you have a misalignment that is anterior and superior on the right. You can also see that the spinous process of C2 is to close in space to C3 compared to the other spinous processes. Additionally, looking at axial-clival angle, which is between the base of the skull and the backside of the body of C2, shows an angle that suggests a possible kyphosis of the brainstem and cord, which is a backward bend. It should be straighter. Aligning your upper cercial spine will reduce the axial-clival angle and bend in the brainstem and cord. Do you have a brain scan?

Good morning Dr. I have heard back from Neil by email and will ring him this morning. I have been pondering this whole situation and wonder if you are able to help with insights to inform Neil of what is a 'best' approach. I think that seeing him will possibly help, although at the end of the day it will be necessary for me to find a person locally to help with treatment. If John is able to do treatments, great, at the end of the day the number of people involved will provide opinions, from my point of view this is good although my main objective is naturally treatment at a manageable cost. I haven't worded that very well I know, bit brain dead this morning. If you can help with insights could you provide an email address by PM (private message) so I can put you in contact with Neil or you could contact him direct on his work email address you gave me.
Thanks, in confusion, Nigel
Edit, in a brief moment of clarity I wonder if an MRI would also be required to determine what is happening with the lesion that was seen 2 plus years ago at C2? Given this is in the area of interest?

Hello Nigel,
I just emailed the doctor. The first thing I want to know is what method of upper cervical he uses. The next thing we need to do is find out what your othogonal notations or anatomical listing is.

The cervical MRI is not necessary at this time as it won't help the doctor in determining the misalignment. After we know what the listing is then we can go from there and see if maybe John can collaborate in your treatment with Bossenger. How far away is Bossenger?