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hi costume, so glad to hear from you and your progress. i'm in agreement with everything you say. take care and be well.

Hi Spiros thanks for the update, I was thinking of asking how you were.
Good to hear the positives and the possible.
Take care, Nigel

Hi Dr. Flannagan

I recently had an upper spine x-ray after a visit to my GP. I had complained about poor horizontal rotation to my left side and after 10 weeks of physio and accupuncture nothing much improved.

I was diagnosed with MS 2 years ago and have posted here before about downward stroke neck massaging, it's apparent benefit to me, and it's tie-in with the whole CCSVI thing.

I have posted my x-ray photo's here...

http://constablecomfortable.blogspot.co ... xrays.html

and if you have a spare minute I would really appreciate your opinion and suggestions as how I should proceed with treatment. The docs report said that the discs and spacing were fine but there was some loss of lordosis. They are advising a steroid injection to ease muscle spasm. Would you agree with this course of action?

Many thanks
Jon

Hello Constable Jon,
I agree with the doctor that your bones and discs (cartilage) are in relatively good shape but you do have significant loss of lordosis. In contrast to costumenational, you have no visible rotational or side slip type misalignments. Nonetheless, your atlas (C1) vertebra, the one directly beneath your skull, has slipped forward and your head is tilted relatively backwards. This can kink and put pressure on the brainstem and upper cord as well as the vertebral arteries, vertebral veins and subarachnoid space.
You present a challenge similar to Nigel. It's impossible to determine the misalignment of your upper cervical spine from these views. You should start with specific upper cervical x-rays. Silverbirch sees Dr. Heidi Grant who does NUCCA upper cervical and is located in London. I would suggest you consult with her.
Interestingly, one of the best studies done on the relationship between whiplash trauma and MS was done in the UK. Many of the victims in the study were cops (constables).

Thanks for the information Dr F.

I have emailed Dr Heidi in the past enquiring about atlas adjustment after reading about it on TIMS and had felt for a while that something wasn't quite right in my neck. I'll get back in touch with her and see if I can arrange an appointment.

The GP asked me if I had had an accident recently, I said "no" and I was wracking my brain trying to think if there was anything that could've caused this. I remembered last week, that I did fall off my bicycle about 2 years ago. It was hilarious I wish someone had filmed it. The wheel got jammed in some loose paving and threw me into a canal, my chest hit the edge stones on the way through. I was laughing while I was treading water and didn't really think of it as an accident. Quite whip-lashy though in retrospect.

Thanks again

blossom wrote:hi costume, so glad to hear from you and your progress. i'm in agreement with everything you say. take care and be well.

thanks friend. same to all of you.

hi dr. flanagan, not too much new yet. of course i realize this will not be a quick fix. "i wish."but dr. weimer seems to be pleased that the pelvis is responding and thoracic is coming along. my feet are still very purple and cold. except when in bed. there are very very small changes for the good i think i'm noticeing in those areas. it's almost like i don't even want to voice it outloud yet because it at times is like the devil is listening so he can have joy at dampering my hopes. hard to explain but i'm sure some others understand where i'm coming from.

the neck area with the stenosis, spurs etc. has had a lot of mixed. from feeling stronger to weaker. temp. changes. he also mentioned that in that same area the sympathetic nerves are "i think". and as i've said that was a diag. i had with mixed opinions. my neck definitely has more range of motion when turning head. but, the tilting back of the head and being able to use hand better is not as dominant and i'm not sure if that's good or bad. i'm hoping that some things even though it seems a little worse for a time will ultimately be for the better good. i've been a mess for a long time.

down the road here when we know more where things stand i am hopeing he sends you and update of his opinion "i feel he will." and, of course i would want yours. i think his thinking is as yours and mine that the neurological problems stem from the neck area. now getting it fixed. pp pp steps. of course when he gets me as far as he feels he can then i will see a nucca dr. this chiro. is very good and careing and seems to be broadminded.

what is your opinion of the spurs in my neck? is there anything you know of to eleminate them other than surgery 'if any neuro. surgeon would do it'. the reason i ask is when he adj. in that area my arms and hands do seem weaker. dr. weimer is aware of this and treating accordingly.

again, thank you for all your help and guidance and the time you take for all of us.

blossom wrote:my feet are still very purple and cold. except when in bed. there are very very small changes for the good i think i'm noticeing in those areas... the neck area with the stenosis, spurs etc. has had a lot of mixed. from feeling stronger to weaker. temp. changes...my neck definitely has more range of motion when turning head. but, the tilting back of the head and being able to use hand better is not as dominant and i'm not sure if that's good or bad.
down the road here when we know more where things stand i am hopeing he sends you and update of his opinion ... and, of course i would want yours. i think his thinking is as yours and mine that the neurological problems stem from the neck area... of course when he gets me as far as he feels he can then i will see a nucca dr. this chiro. is very good and careing and seems to be broadminded.

what is your opinion of the spurs in my neck? is there anything you know of to eleminate them other than surgery 'if any neuro. surgeon would do it'. the reason i ask is when he adj. in that area my arms and hands do seem weaker. dr. weimer is aware of this and treating accordingly.

I will see if I can get a quick summary from the doctor. I am particularly interested knowing if he has you face up or face down on the pelvic blocks.
Spurs and disc degeneration cause stenosis but that doesn't mean you need surgery. The best way to deal with them is to get a cervial MR to first find out how bad they are. The best way to monitor them in the office is by specific arm and hand muscles tests. Your hand and arm muscle tests should steadily get better, never worse. NUCCA is no doubt better for your cervical condition.
That said, there is a difference between feeling weak and neurological weakness. People with bad backs and arthritis complain of weakness and difficulty getting in and out of cars and chairs for example but it is due to muscle strains. People with MS, on the other hand, often have specific neurological weaknesses that are easy to see and test for.
Did the doctor or you notice any particular weaknesses?

dr. flanagan, dr. weimer has me face down with the pelvic blocks as well as the thoracic. i am sitting when it comes to the neck. he does test my hand and arm strength. also observes discolorization. such as when the arms and hands are moved around they look pretty normal the same thing happens to the feet. but not as severe in hands as feet.

he has also been useing an electrical stimulator on my r. leg which is the worst and seeing if we can get my r. toe up which it does come up when stimulated and even though it is very slight i am bringing it up some on my own. he i think, is testing things to see where it goes and if the neurological damage could be helped with that. i had brought that up to him as i had asked you about it. maybe when he communicates with you i know he will explain.

ok with the weakness. over all i do not feel weaker as you described older people etc. as i had said after one of the treatments my arms and hands did feel lighter and seemed better movement. then after one they were worse. also, i had a lot of tingling in both hands when i told him he said what he had done was in the area of the spurs and he changed his adj. that was yesterday and today they do not feel as bad. but, no improvements. this might be something, i have noticed i can type "useing left hand only" longer it seems before fingers get useless. but as i said earlier, my r. hand does not respond when i tilt my head back as well as it used to. other than that it is about the same.

it is weird, when i had the ccsvi treatment my feet and hands did warm some up and stayed that way for a few weeks then it started sort of blinking cold hot on off. this hot then cold thing went on before treatment and that is how it is now. purple colored especially feet and hands when cold and reddish feet and fingers when hot. when they are red it seems i have better movement. but they do not feel any lighter. i had a doppler done yesterday of jug. veins and she said i had flow and would not send me home if they saw signs of clotting. of course this is not the zambonni protocol. but it is the best i can do.

so, that's my story for now. i'll see my chiro. mon. wed. and fri. i hope you two can touch base. i feel lucky to have got him and between the two of you i'm dareing to have some real hope. then when it's time for nucca i'll be there.

by cervical mr do you mean a cervical mri? he was talking about getting some testing done. maybe after you two talk i can get that done.

thanks again.

Hello Blossom,
The doctor is doing a terrific job. Putting you face down on the blocks to counter strain the misalignment makes the most sense for unwinding the twist and relieving tension from the lower cord.
When the pelvis twists it distorts the outlets for the femoral artery. It also twists the spine. When the spine twists is distorts the thoracic (shoulder) outlets which contain nerves and blood vessels to the arms and hands causing a thoracic outlet type syndrome (TOS).
When the pelvis and spine twist it also causes a downward strain on the cord. If the downward strain from the cord gets severe enough it pulls the brainstem downward toward the foramen magnum, which can increase pressure on the brainstem.
Among other things, pressure on the brainstem causes circulatory problems in the extremities. Distortion of the pelvic and thoracic outlets, on the other hand, directly impinge blood vessels, which can further complicate the problems.
Yes I do mean a cervical MRI. A cervical MRI would indicate if the spurs or degenerated discs are impinging nerve roots or the thecal sac of the cord which contains the vertebral veins. Spondylosis (degenerated spine) and stenosis (narrowing of the spinal canal) can cause many of your signs and symptoms.

Dear Doctor Flanagan, a friend of mine who suffers from MS has been told that appart from MS lesions virtually everywhere along the cervical spinal cord (she also has 3 in her brain) there are numerous problems with her vertebrae.
The fact that they see a person who has a damaged spinal cord (cervical AND thoracic) with cervical spinal lesions without suggesting some kind of corrective treatment makes one wonder...
Please, let us know what's wrong with those pictures. There are a lot more if needed and hopefuly my friend will login in TiMS soon enough to discuss further. I am convinced that her spinal cord problems may contribute a great deal to the formation of lesions everywhere in her neck but I suspect you know better.
Please, help her as at the monent she is seeing a chiropractich after my suggestion but I really doubt that he knows what he is dealing with. I have my reasons.
Is there any hope and what chiropractic method should she go after? Unfortunately she doesnt live in Athens so our dear doctor Koontz is out of the question.
I will ask her to join for further details.
In the mean time, I just dont get how her cord may have been damaged (if it is damaged indeed).

Hello Costumenational,
Your friend has mildly degenerated buldging discs at C3/4, C4/5 and significantly buldging discs at C5/6 and C6/7. The buldging discs are compressing the thecal sac which contain the vertebral venous plexus of veins that drain the cord and the brain. She also has a military (straight) neck due to loss of normal cervical lordosis (curve toward the chin), and she has a head tilt to the right and a curvature in her thoracic spine to the right. She may have a mild scoliosis.
The condition of her cervical spine can affect arterial circulation to the cord and brain as well as venous drainage of the brain and cord and the flow of CSF through the subarachnoid space of the upper cervical spine.
What are her signs and symptoms?

Thank you Dear Doctor.
She will join us soon enough to discuss the situation.

Dear dr Flanagan,
thanks to the last post from my dear friend Costumenational,I get a chance to learn your opinion about my problem.
My major problems are Fatigue,urgent bladder, somethimes leg spasms(when Im tired),balance issues,getting very tired after walking...
Would like to tell me more about how this kind of condition with my cervical spine realy affect my (MS) symptoms,and if there is anything I could do to to help my condition.
I do visit few times chiropractor,but Im not sure we are on a good route...
Thank you a lot, in front.

Hello Ollia,
There are many ways in which degenerative conditions of the cervical spine can cause the signs, symptoms and the lesions seen in MS. Fatigue is a sign of poor blood flow. There is a good chance that loss of balance is a sign of poor blood flow to the cerebellum. Bladder frequencey is a sign of brainstem compression (can also be due to lower cord tension) and the leg spasms are most likely due to venous hypertension in the cervical spine increasing pressure on the long motor tracts of the spinal cord.

While chiropractic may be able to help, you have a difficult case with many lesions in the cord and brain and some serious symptoms that needs extra special attention and care.