This Is MS Multiple Sclerosis Knowledge & Support Community

Posted: **Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:57 am**

I do not believe that lead or any other heavy metal comes out of the body without assistance... I think they realized that when children get poisoned with lead, that the body is not well-equipped to excrete heavy metals... there is a ton of literature out there on the subject... I used to do stained glass work, and like an idiot I stripped paint in a house that was built in 1919. I did all of this work without a mask or protection...

I tested very very low in glutathione, your main natural chelator in the body. Once you get poisoned, glutathione falls through the floor and then you accumulate more and more and more toxins because your main method of excretion has been depleted.

The people who get poisoned, according to Andrew Cutler, are people that have abnormal metabolisms in the first place. My mother was diabetic, my two brothers have been diagnosed diabetic (and both are in really good physical shape, not overweight, very active etc.), and I have had hypoglycemia forever it seems. That is why I found this biofeedback test so interesting, every single pancreatic enzyme is missing basically...

Dr. Lyn has suggested that I start with FitSmart shakes, which are packed with protein and fiber and minerals... but seven digestive enzymes are included. She says even her sickest patients can tolerate these things, so I have ordered vanilla... low uric acid can be a sign of low protein, but I eat tons of protein so I have to conclude that I am not digesting it. Also, my inability to tolerate pancreatic enzymes indicate extreme gut inflammation... this could be why my hemoglobin is not bouncing back, messed up digestion. Aargh matey, trying to get my life back is taking up my entire life!

Posted: **Tue Sep 28, 2010 11:14 am**

Could anyone give me advice on glutathione supplements. My sister takes it and thinks it helps her. She's doing very well these past five years.
Any tips on this one?

Posted: **Tue Sep 28, 2010 11:38 am**

Bethr-glutathione is a tripeptide, meaning that it is made of three different amino acids, glutamic acid, glycine and cysteine. Depending on who you read, oral supplementation seems to be supposedly ineffective because the stomach breaks down the tripeptide into individual components. That is why I am nebulizing it, to bypass the digestive system. I did not find supplementation orally to be effective, it did not seem to do anything... my cysteine levels were already high anyway, but I was very low in glutamic acid and glycine, and adding more cysteine caused more spasticity... Andrew Cutler warns against glutathione, says that it moves Mercury around without properly binding it. That is why I am nebulizing glutathione/zeolite/silver altogether. The theory is that the glutathione will remove intracellular toxins, silver will kill any kind of pathogens, and the zeolite will absorb irrevocably any of the pesticides heavy metals etc... I have absolutely no side effects from doing this, but individually all of these substances just about kills me! Especially the silver, it makes me sick as a dog if I try to do it by itself. There is a liposomal glutathione, but it is so expensive! The glutathione I am nebulizing is 100 capsules of 200 mg each for about $35, which is very reasonable.

http://theranaturals.com/

The GSH Plus has sodium bicarbonate so that you can nebulize it.

Posted: **Tue Sep 28, 2010 2:00 pm**

Bethr-
I had a long talk with my dr (osteopathic) about this--she gives intravenous drips of glutathione, and all those taking it swear by it--increased energy, feel better, etc.
She also recommends the lipoform--she does not use it, but has spoken to drs that have good experience with it.
She sees what the NAC has done for me, so respects that, but does not have other experience with it--she also knows the literature that says NAC works.
I had severe liver damage a # of years ago--I used NAC, which your body uses to make glutathione (along with ALA and Silymarin) and am sure this form works also--I was not expected to live, but know these supplements, along with some others, were the healers.
I would try the NAC first, before the huge expense of the other forms.

Posted: **Tue Sep 28, 2010 3:36 pm**

Shye-I agree with what you have said about NAC, unless you are like me unfortunately, where you have high cysteine to begin with. Then this will make it/you worse... cysteine is neurotoxic at higher levels. Whenever I eat foods that are high in cysteine I spaz out. Even things like bromelain, which is a cysteine-based enzyme makes me spaz ... papain, same thing, because it is a cysteine-based enzyme. So my advice is if you have a bad reaction to n -acetyl-cysteine, do not continue with it...

I also have to correct a previous statement. Zeolite does not bother me in any way, it is the silver that bothers me, ditto that glutathione by itself. I did glutathione IVs, had a horrible reaction, more and more neurological symptoms... unfortunately, it never seems to be one-size-fits-all!

Posted: **Tue Sep 28, 2010 5:24 pm**

well, we now know that is certainly correct

indeed we do! lol

Posted: **Tue Sep 28, 2010 5:32 pm**

you know what, i said before that zinc deficiency might be DUE TO protein deficiency but at this stage i am thinking they are just things seen together, like low zinc and low uric acid are seen together.

on zinc and protein:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1270318/
The effects of zinc deficiency on pancreatic carboxypeptidase activity and protein digestion and absorption in the rat

and on zinc and glutathione:

http://www.thisisms.com/ftopicp-55853.html#55853

anyone else have another guess what handy nutrient elevates your glutathione???

if you click through to that one, there's a bit of a chuckle (for me anyway!) on that old thread

Posted: **Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:14 am**

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lane, J. D., Opara, E. C., Rose, J. E. and Behm, F. (1996). "Quitting smoking raises whole blood glutathione." Physiology & Behavior 60(5): 1379-81.
Cigarette smoke contains numerous oxygen free radicals that may be important in smoking-related disease pathogenesis. These free radicals may overwhelm antioxidant defenses and produce a condition of oxidative stress that can result in damage to DNA and other cellular components. This study investigated whether or not indications of harmful oxidative stress decline following smoking cessation. Changes in whole blood glutathione (GSH), an index of oxidative stress level, were determined for 30 cigarette smokers who participated in an experimental smoking-cessation program. Measurements were taken during ad lib smoking and 3 weeks after smoking cessation. In 22 individuals who were continuously abstinent for 3 weeks, GSH levels rose significantly following smoking cessation, from 5.0 to 6.1 mumol/g Hb (p < 0.001). Individuals with the lowest GSH levels during ad lib smoking showed the greatest increases following cessation. Results suggest that oxidative stress and free-radical damage diminish soon after smoking cessation. Thus, some significant health benefits may appear rapidly when people quit smoking.

Posted: **Wed Sep 29, 2010 2:27 pm**

related, tying in cadmium from cigarette smoke and reduced serum zinc (and presumably reduced glutathione):

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3688081

Am J Obstet Gynecol. 1987 Nov;157(5):1241-6.

The effect of smoking on placental and fetal zinc status.
Kuhnert PM, Kuhnert BR, Erhard P, Brashear WT, Groh-Wargo SL, Webster S.

Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, Cleveland Metropolitan General Hospital, OH 44109.

Abstract

Previous studies have reported a cadmium/zinc interaction in cadmium-exposed pregnant animals that results in (1) increased placental cadmium levels, (2) increased placental zinc levels, and (3) decreased placental zinc transport. This study was carried out to determine whether zinc status would be affected in pregnant women exposed to cadmium through cigarette smoke. Atomic absorption spectroscopy was used to determine the levels of cadmium and zinc; 65 pregnant women who smoke and 84 who do not smoke were studied. Our data reveal that increased cadmium levels in pregnant women as the result of smoking increase placental zinc levels and decrease cord red blood cell zinc levels. Significantly higher levels of both cadmium and zinc were found in the placentas of pregnant women who smoke; moreover, stepwise multiple regression showed that maternal whole blood cadmium levels predicted placental zinc levels. In regard to cord blood, a significant 9% decrease in the red blood cell zinc level was observed in infants of mothers who smoke and this decrease was correlated with smoking activity, as evaluated by measuring plasma levels of thiocyanate. Also cord red blood cell zinc levels were found to correlate with placental zinc levels in nonsmokers but not in smokers. Overall, our data show that a cadmium/zinc interaction does take place in the maternal-fetal-placental unit of pregnant women who smoke and results in less favorable zinc status in the infants.

Posted: **Wed Sep 29, 2010 4:12 pm**

Thanks heaps JL and Merlyn!
So I should notice some pretty quick results.

Merlyn wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lane, J. D., Opara, E. C., Rose, J. E. and Behm, F. (1996). "Quitting smoking raises whole blood glutathione." Physiology & Behavior 60(5): 1379-81.
Cigarette smoke contains numerous oxygen free radicals that may be important in smoking-related disease pathogenesis. These free radicals may overwhelm antioxidant defenses and produce a condition of oxidative stress that can result in damage to DNA and other cellular components. This study investigated whether or not indications of harmful oxidative stress decline following smoking cessation. Changes in whole blood glutathione (GSH), an index of oxidative stress level, were determined for 30 cigarette smokers who participated in an experimental smoking-cessation program. Measurements were taken during ad lib smoking and 3 weeks after smoking cessation. In 22 individuals who were continuously abstinent for 3 weeks, GSH levels rose significantly following smoking cessation, from 5.0 to 6.1 mumol/g Hb (p < 0.001). Individuals with the lowest GSH levels during ad lib smoking showed the greatest increases following cessation. Results suggest that oxidative stress and free-radical damage diminish soon after smoking cessation. Thus, some significant health benefits may appear rapidly when people quit smoking.

Posted: **Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:51 am**

Thanks to some kind hearted people here in TiMS, I got some good information. I had my first session over the last weekend.

This is the 5th day since then and I can say I have had very good experience so far. I had one bad day, 2 okay days and 2 pretty days. The pain I was experiencing around my temples since last month or so has completely disappeared. I was really worried about this new type of headache.

I hope this continues. If I can get relief even for 1.5 months in a 3 month window, this is probably the one of the rare things (LDN being the other one) that made a difference to my symptoms.

Posted: **Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:04 pm**

sbr487-I assume you are talking about blood donation, and that you have had a positive reaction... so glad for you! Out of curiosity, are you vegetarian? I just noticed the India portion of your identity and I am wondering whether you are an omnivore!

I wish I can keep giving, but my hemoglobin is just not high enough, even though my ferritin creeps back up fairly steadily... on my ZYTO biofeedback test, it recommended that I take even more B. vitamins than I am now taking, so maybe it is the folic acid or B12... so hard to pinpoint.

There has to be something that we are producing in our bloodstreams that is inflammatory/sticky... but too many of us have noticed some improvements when offloading a pint or so of blood... please keep us informed of your experience and maybe one of these days we will figure out what besides iron is messing us up.

Posted: **Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:18 pm**

sbsr487
Maybe a bit off topic, but you mention that LDN has greatly helped you--I just started using it 2 weeks ago--notice nothing yet (except a bit of sleep disturbance)--would greatly appreciate if you PM me your experiences--how much using, how long on it, any bad effects, what are good effects, etc
Thanks...

Posted: **Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:39 pm**

Merlyn wrote: sbr487-I assume you are talking about blood donation, and that you have had a positive reaction... so glad for you! Out of curiosity, are you vegetarian? I just noticed the India portion of your identity and I am wondering whether you are an omnivore!

yes, Merlyn, this was letting out the blood. I had >12.5 haemoglobin, so it wasn't an issue for me. I am an pure vegetarian but I don't know that has ever helped me. People seem to have a different notions about vegetarianism, but not every vegetation food is healthy.

Posted: **Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:30 am**

sbr487-it just gets curiouser and curiouser as to why this bloodletting is so helpful. Being vegetarian, it is doubtful that you have iron overload, and further I assume that molecular mimicry is not heavily involved, simply due to the lack of animal-based protein. I am just trying to figure out why in the world this bloodletting is so useful/helpful. There has to be some inflammatory component in our blood that is causing venous damage, damage to the endothelial cells. And you are right about vegetarianism, over the years I have noticed a number of people with MS that are vegetarian. B12? Do you take supplements of methylcobalamin? One lady I knew totally reversed her MS symptoms when I suggested that she take various forms of B12 (she was a lifelong vegetarian), but she was an exception, her reversal of symptoms was very rapid. She took all four kinds in high doses. I have injected methylcobalamin, hydroxyl cobalamin, cyanocobalamin and I never received any benefit. But for some it might make all the difference in the world.

I show up allergic to cobalt, the metal, but that is B12... cyanocobalamin, methylcobalamin, hydroxycobalamin,adenosylcobalamin , they all have cobalt at the center... and I have wondered for many years whether I use B12 properly.

This Is MS Multiple Sclerosis Knowledge & Support Community

Phlebotomy anyone?