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Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:56 am
by Bethr
Wow...This article is a must read.
I"ve been researching Hepcidin, the link between the immune system, inflammation and how your body treats iron.


.
The identification of hepcidin opens the door to therapeutic approaches for several disorders and to proscriptions regarding the use of iron. Recombinant hepcidin may be the ideal therapeutic agent for those with some forms of juvenile haemochromatosis and with the less severe but more common form of haemochromatosis caused by mutations in the HFE gene [26]. Hepcidin-induced iron deprivation may prove helpful in preventing the development of resistant bacterial biofilms [10]. For the anaemia of inflammation, often resistant to erythropoietin therapy [27], inhibitors of hepcidin, by releasing sequestered iron, could restore haemoglobin levels and conceivably correct an iron lack in myoglobin and cytochromes as well. Finally, of related interest is a recent report that moderate alcohol intake reduces levels of C-reactive protein and IL-6 [28], the principle chemokine for the generation of hepcidin mRNA, extrapolating to a possible ameliorative role of alcohol in both inflammation and the anaemia of inflammation.
As to proscriptions, iron supplements should be monitored, not only because the resulting increase in hepcidin can fuel antimicrobial engines unnecessarily, but because hepcidin increases macrophage iron sequestration in the synovium as elsewhere. Synovial iron has the propensity to generate oxygen free radicals that have been linked to the chronicity and erosiveness of joint disease in RA [29]. In fact, intramuscular injections of iron have long ago been reported to cause acute flares of joint inflammation in RA [30]. A broader phlogistic potential of iron towards the joint comes from a recent report that iron depletion by serial phlebotomies diminishes recurrences of gouty arthritis [31]. If one adds all of the above to the reported links of iron sufficiency to colon cancer [32], diabetes mellitus [33], chronic hepatitis [34] and atherosclerosis [35], it would seem best to phase out gratuitous iron supplementation altogether.
The discovery of hepcidin provides a thread that ties together the perplexing triad of decreased serum iron, increased macrophage iron and chronic inflammation. In addition, it offers a unique opportunity for determining the effects of iron on disease, the usefulness of hepcidin inhibitors or promoters to control iron kinetics, and the proper means of iron administration. In the aggregate, these will represent a step forward in the treatment of a variety of diseases.
The authors have declared no conflicts of interest.
http://rheumatology.oxfordjournals.org/ ... /1323.full

Hepcidin: inflammation's iron curtain
Rheumatology Vol. 43 No. 11 © British Society for Rheumatology 2004; all rights reserved


I need to further note that, since this article this year De Sousa published that lymphocytes also produce Hepcidin. The missing link between immune response and iron storage.

I find this so interesting, as it explains why someone who is aneamic can have iron overloaded macrophages, and the iron is not available for them, but it is non the less in their body with more likelyhood of free radicals and inflammation. Prescribing iron supplements in this situation seems ludicrous.

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 3:48 pm
by shye
Merlyn
a methyl malonic acid test will show if you use B12 properly--
We haven't followed up yet (my dr only does things if I keep after her!), but my methly malonic test a few months ago showed a problem wtih utilizing B12, despite my taking almost daily shots of methylcobalamin.
I think I might need to find a specialist to get to the core of this problem-but too much else on my plate medically wise right now--and am skeptical that they will find the root of the problem, because all the drs specialize so much--I've gotten caught too many times in the cracks between specialists.

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 3:49 pm
by shye
Interesting stuff Bethr
is there a test for macrophage iron overload? or do you have to assume from trans sat figures etc?

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 8:13 pm
by sbr487
Merlyn wrote: Being vegetarian, it is doubtful that you have iron overload, and further I assume that molecular mimicry is not heavily involved, simply due to the lack of animal-based protein. I am just trying to figure out why in the world this bloodletting is so useful/helpful.
we can only speculate. I am also not sure about the general iron overload.
Per CCSVI, our main issues seem to be concerning the iron build up in brain. Probably something happens to that due to blood letting ...
I have read articles that suggest that blood letting does nothing scientifically. But those scientists are not the ones who have to endure this goddamn disease. So, I do what makes my life a little easier (life is tough as it is)
There has to be some inflammatory component in our blood that is causing venous damage, damage to the endothelial cells.
I am believer of CCSVI and I think majority of the vein issues are natural or induced malformations. So, allow me to disagree with your statement that something in our blood causes vein issues ...
And you are right about vegetarianism, over the years I have noticed a number of people with MS that are vegetarian.
B12? Do you take supplements of methylcobalamin? One lady I knew totally reversed her MS symptoms when I suggested that she take various forms of B12 (she was a lifelong vegetarian), but she was an exception, her reversal of symptoms was very rapid. She took all four kinds in high doses. I have injected methylcobalamin, hydroxyl cobalamin, cyanocobalamin and I never received any benefit. But for some it might make all the difference in the world.
Walnut, vit c, honey, cod liver are the only ones I take ...


You have lot of knowledge about nutrition. Thanks for all the info. Thats why I find TiMS so good.

Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:14 pm
by Merlyn
I would love to do some more bloodletting and I am hoping that addressing protein deficiencies will solve my low hemoglobin. Dr. Lyn had advised me to try something called FitSmart shakes, and I must say these things are incredibly good tasting. They are primarily undenatured whey protein, fiber, vitamins and minerals. But they also include seven pancreatic enzymes, and this is the first whey protein that I have been able to tolerate. Usually I react to the cysteine and become far more spastic, but this product has been without any negative effect. Because I do not have the money for any out of country treatment i.e. CCSVI, I am totally concentrating on remedies I can pursue at home. And with my results from the ZYTO biofeedback, I am feeling very encouraged because I feel stronger. I have noticed more strength in my arms, more ability to extend arms also.

I am taking vitamin K. I am also experimenting with freeform amino acids, specifically glutamine to heal leaky gut, glycine because I have read that people could take 1 g of glycine a day for six months often get rid of spasticity and people with MS seem to be consistently low in glycine (and therefore short of GABA)... I am also taking branched-chain amino acids. I have had amino acid tests before, and consistently showed low levels of just about everything except cysteine...

Because this biofeedback test also showed lactose intolerance, I have eliminated virtually all lactose (I use whipping cream in the morning on my oatmeal, and it does have a small amount of lactose). First thing I have noticed from this elimination is that I am no longer experiencing a stuffy nose in the morning... it was never really bad, but this is noticeably improved.

I have continued to take Nattokinase, but I don't notice anything from it. Some people report improved circulation virtually immediately, but I have not noticed anything whatsoever. So I am going to increase the dose and see what happens. This biofeedback test also showed a lack of calcitonin, the parathyroid hormone, and this is not surprising as my thyroid is a basket case. So undoubtedly I am not handling calcium well... so I will keep trying to chelate the Mercury out of me. You could only do your best guess scenario...

Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:35 pm
by Merlyn
Glycine also increases human growth hormone (HGH) and I showed low on that in a roundabout way in that I have low I-IGF... insulin growth factor I think it's called, but when it is low, it means you have low HGH. Glycine is also one of the amino acids that goes into making up glutathione, so being chronically low in it means you probably also have low levels of glutathione. My glutathione is low, that was tested independently of glycine...



http://antiagingguide.com/hgh_quality_ingredients.htm

. It may be useful in dampening hyperactive brain activity that produces spasms. In one study, 1 gram of glycine a day for six months to one year significantly reduced spasms in all ten patients with severe chronic spasticity in the legs, including seven with multiple sclerosis.

Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:16 pm
by PointsNorth
Hello shye,

I've had a Schilling's Test for B12 which turned up negative (B12 serum level high), but I rely on B12 every 1-2 weeks for MS symptoms (esp. fatigue) and Crohn's disease, which I was diagosed with in late '80s (subsequent resection of terminal illeum in '91). I've heard that the Schilling's Test only measures blood serum levels of B12, not absorption of the vitamin. While my B12 levels are said to be routinely sky-high by my gasteroenterologist, my MS symptoms point to absorption problems. I need to prove/disprove absorption problems.
It sounds like the mm-acid test you speak of is helpful in determining whether B12 is being absorbed or not?

I read after I was diagnosed with MS in 2003 that there is not one MS symptom that cannot also be explained by a B12 deficiency!!

Please let me know what you think.

Thanks, PN

Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:36 am
by Merlyn
http://www.testcountry.com/products.html?product=1883

I have tested mercury poisoned over and over and over again, so I would not be surprised if I have a problem with B12...

http://www.whale.to/w/b12.html

in fact, when I did a test called a Clifford reactivity test for what materials I could safely put into my mouth, I tested immune reactive to cobalt, which is of course at the heart of B12...

Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:46 am
by Merlyn
http://www.howweheal.com/vitaminb12.htm

(8) As of 2004 no plant sources of vitamin B12 had been found, though many had been tested including various seaweeds, algae and fermented foods. Where claims have been made as to B12 being present in a plant source, it has not been based on the test for MMA levels, and any subsequent tests have found no reduction in MMA, proving the presence only of inactive analogues.

Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 2:40 pm
by jimmylegs
yep PN - you can get MMA and homocysteine done to help figure out if your body is dealing with b12 properly.

Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 5:16 pm
by shye
PointsNorth-
the methylmalonic test will tell you if you have a problem--but not really why.
I also had the schilling years ago--and a high B12 reading due to injections-- snd so shilling negative.
Yet I seem to need the B12 (methylcobalamin injections very frequently (every other day) in order to see colors well and have somewht sharp contrast--and also for energy. Have only found one dr, an osteopath, who is willing to give me the script for the B12 injections at such frequency--and she is just going by my response, has no info to offer me that I haven't already found on the internet and from experience.
This appears to be a puzzle that drs ignore. I saw the chief neurologist at Mt Sinai MS clinic here in NY, and told him of my experience with B12 shots, that can't operate without them, yet he advised me to stop the shots, and come back to his clinic when my symptoms got a bit worse, because they had a plethora of medicines to offer me!!!!!
I'll take my osteo over the famous neurologist any day...

Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:01 pm
by PointsNorth
I have a similar problem with my gastroenterologist who laughs at me when he sees my sky-high B12 levels. I'm completely drained of all energy when I "run out of gas". Getting B12 before I absolutely need it is essential as it is difficult to "catch up" after falling behind. So I guess I just get my doctor to order a methlmalonic test at a lab. I will also pursue a phlebotomy - my Gastro has hospital priveledges and can order one (if I can convince him). No blood donation for MSrs in Canada!! I may need to take a trip over the border . . . .

Shye - I use cynocobalamin as the methyl variety seems difficult to source. Do you have a preference?

I wonder if there is a simple way to index this forum as it has gotten so big and my MS-mind tires trying to read it.

Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 11:21 am
by Merlyn
I am in Canada, and I use iherb.com to get most all of my supplements. They are incredibly reliable, carry thousands of products and charge a flat four dollars fee for shipping anything under 3 pounds. They have calculators on site so you can estimate the weight of your package. They do carry all kinds of sublingual methylcobalamin... I find prices in Canada for many of these items to be way over the top. I would prefer to buy from and support Canadian companies , but I can't afford the markup.

Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:45 pm
by jimmylegs
PN, Quest makes sublingual methylcobalamin and i've seen it at Nutrition House before..

Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:05 pm
by PointsNorth
Hi Guys,

I've tried B12 of the methyl variety (sublingual) but I don't think I benefited. I thinking that I need an injection. I am willing to try again, tho, so is there a brand that you recommend? Also, can you recommend a brand of methylcobalamin (liquid). I found it very difficult to source here in Canada.

Thanks, PN