This is a discussion between me and a doctor friend... still ongoing:
BTW ski masks are being used in hospitals...
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The immune system might calm down if there was no more virus...
Chris
> Corona virus infection.
Stage 1 = like the common cold= upper respiratory tract infection with fever/sore throat/sinusitis etc
Stage 2 = spread to the lungs= lower respiratory infection with above + SOB, cough, pneumonia/bronchitis (still survivable)
Stage 3 = What finally kills people in Stage 3 of the disease is our own bodies overzealous immune response, not so much the virus any more, but your body starts to attack itself (autoimmune like) and affects heart/liver/kidneys/lungs etc resulting in organ failure = death
At this end stage we may need to suppress the bodies immune response because at that point the virus has been mostly destroyed and further damage, end organ failure, is from our own immune systems destructive power.
I think this is the way it works. So lung lavage with something that kills the virus will not work at this Stage 3.
Very good thought though it is.\
Bob
>> OK that is very clear now. I would never advocate strong soap in the lungs. The destruction of the surfactant is likely similar to the reason it deactivates the virus. These people are close to death and their lungs are intubated anyway. Under an anaesthetic the lungs could be filled with a weak soap solution. Then the person could be inverted to drain it. Then the distilled water rinse could be poured in, and the person inverted again to drain it again. You only have a few minutes until they die from lack of oxygen. Perhaps you need more than one "rinse cycle". But if I were close to death I would say yes, try it. Wouldn't you?
You might need to rely on the air pressure from the iron lung (I had a bipap machine for awhile - "whew! my iron lung is working again") to inflate the lungs) to revive them before they could breath on their own. You might also need several "rinse cycles".
Anyway rather than die for sure it might be something I'd want them to try, with my consent, before my lungs filled with "clean" water and killed me while I was on a ventilator. Some soaps are probably better than others, so I'd consult with a chemist or two.
What do you think? Would you suggest it to a palliative doctor? Would you distribute my video to other doctors?
Chris
>>> Good comprehensive video Chris.
Some thoughts about soap in the lungs.
If my memory serves me correctly...
The lungs are made of many many tiny air sacs like bubbles called alveoli, which I believe are held open with a ‘surfactant’. Without this surfactant, they would collapse. Then you have a chunk of solid lung tissue with no air sacs. This is why premature babies die because their immature lungs have too little or no surfactant.
I believe soap, made from lye, a caustic alkali product, destroys this surfactant and the lungs would therefore collapse and become fully nonfunctional.
This is all from vague memory of physiology/anatomy classes from 40 odd years ago.
Bob
This works for a cold, which is also a coronavirus, but as with a cold, the sooner after symptoms start, the better. Some people have said it gets into your cells and soap won't touch it there. But it infects mucus. How it gets in your lungs is you sniffle and infected mucus goes down your lungs.
https://vimeo.com/402219082
It uses parts of cells to construct more copies of itself. That's how it spreads. But it infects mucus and that's one medium it travels in.
One sniffle could kill you if it reaches your lungs.
What I do in the shower works for another coronavirus, the common cold. But as with a cold, the sooner after symptoms start, the better.
Another thing: masks can be made of silk or other cloth, that is soaked in soap. Even after it dries, the soap residue will protect. Droplets containing viri will deactivate when they hit the soap.
I found a ski mask that has a soft foam rubber surround. It doesn't press very hard on your face. The foam rubber could be soaked in a dilute soap solution, just like the cloth mask. Ski goggle manufacturers might want to donate these to hospitals.
Chris
