This Is MS Multiple Sclerosis Knowledge & Support Community

In this thread you will find how Postural Therapy is making a huge difference for people with multiple sclerosis.

This therapy is free and addresses the problem with swollen / varicosed veins and Chronic venous insufficiency.

If you could answer the questions below and check the apporpriate box it will help us to understand the connection between venous problems and multiple sclerosis.

Thank you

Do you have, or have you ever had varicose veins?

Or have you experienced unusual swelling in your veins, these can be in your hands or on your feet?

Or Have you experienced haemorrhoids / piles ?

If you use a wheelchair and have experienced haemorrhoids, please only answer yes if you have had this problem prior to using a wheelchair.

The results from this Poll should provide everyone with an understanding of the relationship with circulation to multiple sclerosis, so please, everyone vote, it is completely anonymous to do so.

This question relates to the recent paper from Professor Zamboni Titled: Chronic cerebrospinal venous insufficiency in patients with multiple sclerosis showing swollen veins in 100% of patients with ms.
http://www.thisisms.com/ftopict-6488-zamboni.html
http://jnnp.bmj.com/cgi/rapidpdf/jnnp.2008.157164v1 Download Zamboni’s paper and examine the x-ray plates.

This question also relates to my own research on varicose veins and multiple sclerosis, using Inclined Bed Therapy as an intervention for both conditions.





Varicose veins shrink during Inclined Bed Therapy, usually within a 4 week period of avoiding a flat bed. No surgery, drugs or diet changes, it's a fact! Varicose veins are caused because the pressure inside the vein is increased. A vein is not strong enough to resist high positive pressures resulting from the heart and blood pressure. The arteries however do resist positive pressure effectively. So the question should be how does physiology today explain the absence of positive pressure inside a vein when the heart is believed to be the sole source of output in circulation? The heart is a pump after all and the circulatory system inside our body is linked to the pump. So it is easy to understand why a pump will inevitably inflate both the artery and the vein and therefore easy to understand how varicose veins occur. But the puzzle remains as to why varicose veins do not affect everyone in the same way?

Raising the legs higher than the heart can temporarily relieve varicose veins. The improvements using this method are very short term and the problem does not resolve using this method. Surgery is often used to repair damaged veins, it is often painful, and runs the constant risk of infection along with the possibility of venous collapse, where the repaired vein closes restricting circulation and resulting in further costly surgery.

Also when a person exercises by jogging or walking briskly it will inevitably increase the heart rate and therefore the output from the heart should be expected to increase the pressure in the artery and the vein, yet this does not happen, in fact the pressure in the vein is reduced and the pressure in the artery is increased respectively


Inclined Bed Therapy In TV NEWS on Youtube Video

Further on in this thread you will read about how simply altering the angle of your bed can have a huge positive influence on the symptoms of multiple sclerosis, Read about Foreverspring, a 68 years young lady with ms and her road to recovery from following the inclined therapy I.T. method.

Chronic venous insufficiency and Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous CCSVI, Insufficiency are not unrelated. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_ve ... ufficiency

The results from this Poll should provide everyone with an understanding of the relationship with circulation to multiple sclerosis, so please, everyone vote, it is completely anonymous to do so.

Professor Zamboni is working to find a mechanism for altering the cerebrovascular swelling he has identified in 100% of people with MS and 0% in people who do not have ms. His paper shows this clearly on x-ray plates provided. Zamboni et al attribute this swelling close to the spinal cord and nervous system to causing reflux in the venous return and this is looking like a reasonable link to his observations. Refulx or back pressure and back flow is now thought to be the cause of the plaques in multiple sclerosis. I suspect that some similar circulatory problem is responsible for amyotrophic lateral sclerosis or als.

So it must follow that if swollen / varicose veins that are clearly visible in the photographs provided can be reversed using Inclined Bed Therapy, then the swollen veins close to the spinal cord must also be stimulated. I have written to Professor Zamboni about the connection with the venous return pressure changes using IBT asking for an opportunity to explain the connection but as yet have not received a reply.

The thing about IBT and observed pressure changes in varicose veins and the reduction of oedema is that there is no way that the venous return can be segmented. Put bluntly, if the veins in the legs are shrinking then so must the cerebrovacular anomaly discovered in people with multiple sclerosis!


Varicose (swollen) Veins and Oedema Cure?

A Simple Study is showing promise for people who have varicose veins and oedema (fluid retention) or edema as known in the US.




The method used is simply to raise the head end of the bed higher than the foot end of the bed so that gravity alters the pressure inside the veins by dragging dense solutes suspended in our blood through the vessels.

Yet surgery frequently fails to provide long-term benefits resulting in more surgery. Closing veins by injecting foam or whatever is a little like wrapping tape around a burst water pipe. Much the same as a support / compression stocking is. That pressure will find a way to escape no matter how much sticky tape we put on it! Currently advice from the medical profession is raising the feet and legs, (although this logic is at long last slowly changing to IBT)

IBT on the other hand addresses the causes of the bulging veins rather than trying to provide a temporary solution and in doing so removes the cause of the veins and oedema.
The study is located on the Naked Scientists Forum and will require you to become a member of this fascinating courteous corner of the Internet, which I am certain you will find most interesting.

My logic here is, If I help you to deal with your multiple sclerosis symptoms. Will you help me by providing before and after photographs of varicose veins and keep a diary / journal during this dual purpose study? How does this sound?

http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum ... c=9843.100

Andrew K Fletcher

United Kingdom

01803 524117
+441803524117

Adapt Your Own Bed

To sleep using The Inclined Bed Therapy method, a bed is raised placing the head end on two 15cm or six inch blocks. Hooking the casters or legs over the blocks helps to stabilise the bed. If your bed is the type that joins in the centre you will need to support the join with two 3inch or 7.5 cm blocks. The casters at the foot end of the bed should be removed to give the correct slope and added stability. Check the height by measuring from the floor to the top of the mattress. If your bed is longer than a standard bed then you must adjust the height of the blocks accordingly. I have used free wooden off cuts from a timber yard or building site.

Using strong Plastic Tubing from a builders merchants cut to the correct lengths provides a secure method of elevating the bed. The castors and legs of your bed can slot inside the tubes and look much neater than blocks.

A wooden wedge placed under the mattress, or even folded blankets will do the job, but be sure to recheck the angle as the blankets often compress and more should be added to make up the difference. Blocks should not be used to raise bunk beds, as they become unstable. Be patient and expect a little discomfort while gravity adjusts your body to the new posture. You may feel some discomfort in the spine and neck, this appears to be a threshold which has to be passed and is probably due to us developing a more upright posture. If you would like to help me in my ongoing research, or would simply like to monitor your own progress, please keep a journal to record and report any changes in your health, and symptoms.

Please be careful getting into and out of your inclined bed. It is a little strange at first and may take 4 weeks or longer to begin to feel improvements.


15cm (6ins) block------------------------- 7.5cm (3ins) block----------------- Castors off bottom

Advice

1. Please make sure that your feet and toes do not make contact with a footboard or any solid object at the bottom of the bed. Constant pressure on the feet while sleeping will affect circulation and could cause a pressure sore on the feet so please be careful.

2. Sleeping O' Natural will prevent clothing riding up and causing you discomfort.

3. Wrapping the mattres with a blanket or preferably a quilt or duvet under the botom sheet will prevent slipping.

4. A memory foam mattress or memory foam topper will greatly assit sleeping on an incline. But try it first and make sure you intend to stick with IBT before spending any money.

Disclaimer

Please consult your doctor about IBT If you are at all concerned about trying this therapy. Please feel free to discontinue at any time. We cannot and do not accept responsibility for any loss either by damage to property or injury, which you may feel is due to sleeping with your bed raised. The responsibility for which rests entirely with you.

We are not, nor may we be, held responsible for the way that you chose to elevate your bed whatever methods you chose, you and only you are entirely responsible.

The drawings are shown as a guideline only. Your type of bed may not be able to withstand being on an angle and could collapse.

Sitting posture adapted by any methods is entirely your own responsibility. Altering your posture while in a wheelchair could cause you problems. A safety belt or harness should be worn to prevent you from falling out.

We cannot and do not accept responsibility for any loss either by damage to property or injury, which you may feel, is due to altering your sitting posture.

Andrew K Fletcher 1998

PARAMETERS

Inclined Bed Therapy Parameters to monitor, based on pilot study results and experiment results.

Photographs and Video evidence of improvements can speak louder than thousands of words, so please wherever possible take photographs and video any changes.


Short term use of inclined bed rest over 1 to 4 weeks

Please monitor your blood pressure if possible. Blood pressure has been shown to respond rapidly to IBT, without drugs. Low blood pressure and high blood pressure have improved.


1. Heart rate. 10 to 12 beats per minutes slower during inclined sleep.
2. Heart rate. Improved stroke volume.
3. Respiration. 4 to 5 breaths per minute slower during inclined sleep.
4. Respiration. Improved performance of the lungs and increased gas exchange.
5. Urine. Increased specific gravity of urine following inclined sleep.
6. Urine. Slightly Darker and stronger smelling urine produced following inclined sleep. Saving a sample of urine in a clear glass container for comparison
7. Urine. Reduction in quantity of urine produced during and following inclined sleep.
8. Stools. Firmer stools following inclined sleep.
9. Metabolism. Improved body temperature, raised by 1 degree or more and remaining stable throughout inclined sleep.
10. Metabolism. Body heat more evenly distributed, should be obvious with thermal camera, when viewing arms, hands, feet and lower legs.
11. Sleep. Improved sleep pattern, improved state of restfulness, lighter sleep, possibly avoiding rem sleep altogether.
12. Spasm. Prediction, involuntary movement reduction and an obvious elimination of symptoms in some cases.
13. Rising from bed Improved balance and increase in energy upon rising from inclined bed.
14. Rising from bed There may also be some Initial dizziness with some people during the first two weeks of inclined sleep) But this should resolve following the first two weeks.
15. Circulation. Improved circulation, confirmed by thermal imaging camera, showing warmer hands and feet during inclined sleep.
16. Pain. Reduction in neuropathic ms related and non-ms related pain.

Medium term IBT 1 to 4 months

17. Pain. Muscular and joint pain may increase, causing similar symptoms to those following exercise, probably due to increased circulation through muscles and joints
18. Pain. Some people on the study may develop a stiff neck. Believed to be due to the development of a more upright posture. The weight distribution on the spine is thought to have changed meaning that unpolished areas are being used to support the weight. This usually resolves within two weeks.
19. Pain. There may be an increase in pain at the hands and feet, burning sensation and pins and needles similar to cooling hands in winter and initial warming of hands near fire.
20. Energy. Steady increase in energy and general feeling of well-being, more able to get going in the mornings and less likely to sleep in the day.
21. Strength. Marginal Increase in strength and activity.
22. Sinus. Improved or resolved.
23. Heart rate and respiration rate Prediction: noticeably stronger than pre-inclined sleep.
24. Oedema Significant Reduction in swelling, though there may be an initial increase in swelling due to fluid shift, prior to removal of tissue fluid via the decreased pressure in the vein.
25. Varicose veins. Measurable / Visible reduction in size and colour of veins, indicating the development of improved /reduced pressure inside the venous system. Thought to develop from the flow and return system resulting from moisture loss from skin and lungs, which should be confirmed by reduced urine production. However, in some cases where excessive fluid retention is an ongoing problem, there might be an increase of fluid loss from the bladder. This could be confirmed by monitoring the weight of people with this problem.
26. Weight. Improved food uptake during inclined sleep has been shown to cause weight gain in some cases. However, it appears that the weight gain does not increase the size of the person, and is thought to result from an increase in bone and muscle density. Osteoporosis for instance has been shown to improve considerably within the first four months, to the point where symptoms have been completely resolved in some cases.
27. Bladder. Improved bladder control and reduction in bathroom visits during inclined sleep.
28. Bowel. Improved bowel function, production of firmer stools, indicating improved uptake of fluids from digestive system.
29. Spasm. Reduction in spasm, although an initial increase in spasm has been observed prior to the regain of either function or sensitivity.
30. Pain. Some people might experience an increase in pain, or the development of a new pain. This is thought to be caused by the purging of the nervous system through improved circulation within the central and peripheral nervous system. This is usually short term and often is followed by the return of either a lost function or an improvement in sensitivity. It has also been observed to be the same for someone with a spinal cord injury.
31. Balance. Prediction: Continued improvements in balance will develop on a steady course from week 4.
32. MS Related Predictions: There should be some evidence within the four week period of MS Symptom improvements. It appears that the longer someone has had multiple sclerosis the longer it takes them to respond to the therapy. Improved sensitivity, functions, lethargy, energy,

Long Term Use Of Inclined Bed Therapy 4 months or more

The report by John Simkins, titled Raised Bed Survey, uses the following symptoms list in his table:
Mobility/Balance, Tremor, Spasm, Co-ordination, Skin Quality/Healing, Optical, Oedema & Veins, Bladder, sensory, mood swings, strength / endurance, energy level, sleep patterns, wake up, condition nails, condition hair, temperature, pain.
These appear to be all useful and should be monitored during the proposed study.

Finger / toe nails should be clipped and kept before and during the study, which should run for 18 months. Hair should also be monitored closely as condition and colour is observed to change in the long term, and could easily be confirmed by comparing before and after hair samples. I know of one case of leukaemia where the hair did not fall out following chemo and radiation treatment, whereas it always fell out prior to sleeping inclined. I know of another case of a lady with breast cancer who did lose her hair following chemo therapy.
These are some of the parameters, which I feel could either prove or disprove that inclined sleep has a beneficial holistic healing effect on the body, irrespective of the condition. No doubt your department could add to these parameters.



Andrew

I will try to answer any questions on this page.

(Q) How long does it take for IBT to work?

(A) IBT begins to work immediately from the first night you avoid sleeping flat. See parameters on previous post.

Expert Review of Cardiovascular Therapy
May 2005, Vol. 3, No. 3, Pages 433-440
(doi:10.1586/14779072.3.3.433)



Combined hypertension and orthostatic hypotension in older patients: a treatment dilemma for clinicians


The combination of hypertension and orthostatic hypotension in older individuals is becoming increasingly recognized. Managing this combination of disorders presents a treatment dilemma – how to lower blood pressure to provide cardiovascular risk protection without predisposing to syncope. At present, there is no specific evidence base available with regard to managing such patients. Some antihypertensive drug classes (e.g., α-blockers) appear more problematic in this regard than others. In the absence of controlled-trial evidence, use of antihypertensives with a more gradual onset of effect commenced at lower doses and use of lower-limb compression hosiery appears to be a reasonable approach. Abdominal compression devices and elevating the head of the bed may also help to combat orthostatic hypotenstion in older patients with hypertension and warrant future research.



Head-up sleeping improves orthostatic tolerance in patients with syncope.
2008 Dec;18(6):318-24. Epub 2008 Oct 15.
Head-up sleeping improves orthostatic tolerance in patients with syncope.
Cooper VL, Hainsworth R.
Cardiorespiratory Unit, St James's University Hospital, Leeds, UK.
OBJECTIVES: This study was designed to examine the effect of head-up sleeping as a treatment for vasovagal syncope in otherwise healthy patients. Treatment for syncope is difficult. Pharmacological treatments have potential side effects and, although other non-pharmacological treatments such as salt and fluid loading often help, in some cases they may be ineffective or unsuitable. Head-up sleeping may provide an alternative treatment. METHODS: Twelve patients had a diagnosis of vasovagal syncope based both on the history and on early pre-syncope during a test of head-up tilting and graded lower body suction. They then underwent a period of 3-4 months of sleeping with the head-end of their bed raised by 10 degrees , after which orthostatic tolerance (time to pre-syncope during tilt test) was reassessed. RESULTS: Eleven patients (92%) showed a significant improvement in orthostatic tolerance (time to pre-syncope increased by 2 minutes or more). Plasma volume was assessed in eight patients and was found to show a significant increase (P < 0.05, Wilcoxon signed-rank test). There was no significant change in either resting or tilted heart rate or blood pressure after head-up sleeping. INTERPRETATION: Head-up sleeping is a simple, non-pharmacological treatment which is effective in the majority of patients. However, it may not be tolerated by patients or bed-partners long term and whether the effects continue after cessation of treatment remains to be determined. [/b]

Personally, I keep my brain in my head, not behind one of my kneecaps.

In the azygous vein, for which Zamboni shows stenoses, blood flows upwards towards the brain. Tilting the head up with pillows or the above would likely make the venous reflux worse!

Quite!

Can we please be respectful?
Or maybe just not post in forums in which we are not well-versed?
Maybe ask questions before making snarky remarks?
Andrew is addressing the circulatory system, which reacts with gravity and also in its absence, as a close-looped system.
The vascular doctor from Stanford University who recommended inclined bed therapy for my husband did so to avoid pooling of blood and edema in the brain, in case that was part of his multiple sclerosis. This is how Andrew came to visit us. He has spent many years researching his theory.
If it doesn't interest you, move on-
AC

No disrespect intended. I'm just nervous, firstly of asking my husband to have a bed like this, and secondly and perhaps more importantly, my MS is principally in the spinal cord. I can only think that the gravitational pull will be greater on an incline than with my current arrangement, thereby worsening the reflux....but then the varicose veins of the leg are also fighting gravity, so I just guess I'd better try it....!!!

Not directed to you, Alex. If it doesn't look good to you, don't bother.
AC

cheerleader wrote:Can we please be respectful?
Or maybe just not post in forums in which we are not well-versed?
Maybe ask questions before making snarky remarks?
Andrew is addressing the circulatory system, which reacts with gravity and also in its absence, as a close-looped system.
The vascular doctor from Stanford University who recommended inclined bed therapy for my husband did so to avoid pooling of blood and edema in the brain, in case that was part of his multiple sclerosis. This is how Andrew came to visit us. He has spent many years researching his theory.
If it doesn't interest you, move on-
AC

May I ask you Cheer what your vascular doctor suggested (incline bed theory) for Jeff regarding spinal cord lessions?
I believe wife's problem is spinal cord and not brain lessions, she has no signs of brain related problems at all but when she feels worse (rarely) is stiffness and numbness that arises.

Jeff's damage is mostly in his brain, where he has 20 small lesions. He has one lesion on his cervical spine, and no others on his spine. So, the vascular doc was not concerned with any blood pooling in the azygous vein. He was concerned with the jugular vein....and I have a very strong feeling that's where the problem is. I don't know if I would have inclined the bed without the doc's input...but I do believe Andrew is very bright, and may have answers for you. IBT improves the entire body's circulation, not just the area which is elevated.
AC

i have not assessed the inclined bed idea at all, but i second cheer re respect.

Can I just ask Andrew K Fletcher what his qualifications are for his "research?"

Incidentally I have the greatest respect for Prof. Zamboni.

Sarah