drsclafani wrote: NZer1 wrote: drsclafani wrote: NZer1 wrote: drsclafani wrote:
NZer1 wrote:The thing that I am interested in also is the lack of MS DX. Could this example be what we are looking for in the way that MS may not be used to exclude treatment when these symptoms that the gentleman presented with are so similar to MS symptoms. Does this make sense?
Can a person be defined differently by symptom type and receive treatment for vascular problems rather than the treatment be linked to having MS?
MS dx is the stumbling block?
It is my understanding that no one can explain the fatigue associated with MS. Since I do not think that MS causes stenoses of the veins, the diagnosis of ms is not relevant to our discussion. This patient does have two comorbidities: MS and thyroid disease.
Hi Dr, the only reasoning/theory that I have heard regarding fatigue that may hold water is that it is due to cross firing and misfiring of the motor nerves which gives the worn out feeling.
So the fatigue from vascular problems is the clue?
How can we achieve the new status required for treatment?
but there are patients without motor dysfunction who have fatigue. i cannot refute your hypothesis. I dont want to focus on it at all. i want to treat an obvious venous disease.
This would appear to mean that a published research paper with conclusion needs to magically appear and be accepted, stating that venous disease causes fatigue and can be relieved by Angio treatment?
there are papers that describe fatigue caused by venous outflow obstruction from superior vena caval syndrome, stenosis of jugular veins from dialysis catheter, and from ligation of jugular veins
fatigue has not been explained very well by any mechanism.
further the national ms society in us suggests as an off label use modafininl (provigil) as a treatment of fatigue. in the absence of conclusive data showing efficacy or even a mechanism of action
Not too sure where your thinking is going on this Dr. Way back on this thread when we were talking about study design, I put forward the idea to identify symptoms that benefited regularly from angio and to focus on these as a way to get support and involve more medical specialties. The idea seems to have raised its head again.
I still believe that the way forward with acceptance and Govt support is to identify one or two symptoms and use those as the reason for treating CCSVI. The work of Dr. Zamboni and his focus on his findings plus the work of Joan Beal on her findings,
http://www.facebook.com/notes/ccsvi-in- ... 4161772210
gives reason to research the CCSVI understandings from a more, inclusive of other diseases (vascular component of strokes, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, TM, and many, many more) approach.
*This approach showing the vascular involvement as the reason for the treatment and to stress that the knowledge from the outcomes is the most important aspect with ALLOWING angio treatment for brain drainage issues. The answers to why it is beneficial are not defined because prior research has not happened in a way that gives an understanding of the detail of the mechanisms, and the technology has not always been available.
*Treating and watching the outcomes gives quality of life whilst the learning increases. The risk to life is so small that to test in this way is very acceptable.
Most research studies have an idea that is purely theory and the experimenting done is to prove the idea. If it becomes commercially viable it gets the big tick and money to progress.
*The idea of treat and learn is foreign to the medical world but not to most other inventive learning elsewhere in the progressive world.
*This example of vascular issues in MS in particular is one of the few examples where treatment will not cause harm, it will not change the genetic structure, it will give learning and opportunity to help in many other medical problems that are just now being linked to vascular issues.
*I can only see positives for humanity, I can see resistance from commercial interests that will need to be regularly identified for what they are, and keep them under strict control.
Enjoy your day, regards all, Nigel