Prayers for Poland

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Postby trapatron » Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:51 am

It was the airport did not be equipped to landing in fog. Before ms I was an private pilot and I know You cant land if You cant see the ground.
That pilot played with hes passangers life and he did lose.
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Postby Johnson » Sun Apr 11, 2010 3:36 am

trapatron wrote:It was the airport did not be equipped to landing in fog. Before ms I was an private pilot and I know You cant land if You cant see the ground.
That pilot played with hes passangers life and he did lose.

You are probably right. I do not know the airport, but if not (probably not) equipped with a Glide Scope, it was foolish not to divert.

After Liberation, we can fly again. It's just medicals, and we can say "no MS, it was CCSVI. Test me."
My name is not really Johnson. MSed up since 1993
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Postby Pepe » Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:24 pm

We truly offer our sincerest condolences to all the families and the people of Poland.

Maria and Pepe.
María was Dx RRMS 1996. SPMS since 2003; Dx CCSVI by Dr. Simka on Dec.-2009; Balloon angioplasty on Jan.-2010 in Katowice (Poland); Betaseron (2000-2009); Tysabri since June 2009. BBD since 2003. IBT since Jan.-2010.
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Postby Rose2 » Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:31 pm

Such a tragic, tragic loss for everyone. The victims, the families, the communites and the government. How very far this reaches. We are a world community aren't we?
Prayers for all from our family.
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Postby happy_canuck » Sun Apr 11, 2010 1:03 pm

My sincere sympathies are with the Polish people worldwide. They have become our friends through CCSVI, and we are the better for it.

May you and your country find strength in the support of the world as you work through this tragedy.

National CCSVI Society: <strong><br /><a href=""></a> ~Website<br /><a href=""></a> ~Facebook</strong><br />
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Postby Zeureka » Sun Apr 11, 2010 1:06 pm

I have been following this since saturday, where I was shocked to see it in the news on TV while waiting for my routine MRI at hospital...what a tragedy and I cannot express how sad I feel for the Polish people...all so pleasant, friendly, nice and open-minded people I met in Poland...

As I also wondered how and why this happened. I searched on internet today for reasons and found that there is a rumour the pilot may have been ordered by the president to land in order not to arrive too late for waiting journalists...oh well...can this be true... (despite pilot being told, as the black box seems to reveal a conversation, by outside advice several times to land elsewhere due to fog and airport not well equipped...but despite this made 4 attempts to land...and oh gosh, then landed...). Here the source:

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My deepest condolescences to the Polish people...

And thank you if anyone can tell me: Will this mean new votes in June? Will his twin brother maybe have a chance - I understand they had similar politic views? Or am I wrong? Or who could otherwise help out in this difficult situation?
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Postby magoo » Sun Apr 11, 2010 1:15 pm

I am so sorry for the people of Poland. Such a tragedy.
Treated by Dake 10/19/09, McGuckin 4/25/11 and 3/9/12- blockages in both IJVs, azy, L-iliac, L-renal veins. CCSVI changed my life and disease.
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Postby Reytan » Sun Apr 11, 2010 7:04 pm

There is much more to it than you can get from media. Yesterday's tragedy in Smolensk should be viewed in a much broader context. 70 years ago, Soviet Russia had committed genocide on Polish elites. Our President Lech Kaczynski, who flew with 95 state dignitaries to pay tribute to murdered, some 22,000 of them, was not even officially invited by the Russian authorities. He was not welcomed there since he was a man who stood proudly and defiantly for democracy and human rights through even the most difficult times. He cared for his people and his country. He was a man of honor, what he said he would do. Isn’t that ironic that 96 of our elite who wanted to honour brutally murdered lost their lives in the same place? Many of my compatriots consider yesterday's tragedy as the 21st century “Katyn”. If you want to have an idea what “Katyn” means to Polish I invite you to see movie “Katyn” by Andrzej Wajda.

Thank you once again for all your prayers and support.
God Bless You.
Last edited by Reytan on Mon Apr 12, 2010 6:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Asia » Mon Apr 12, 2010 6:26 am

Zaureka - it is very probable Mr President insisted to land despite the fog, but aboard the plane the captain takes orders from no-one. There was one other instance when the captain refused orders to land, deeming it too dangerous. I cannot comprehend why this captain would risk landing in heavy fog. There was only one attempt, though, not four. The plane did circle the airport four times in preparation for landing. The trajectory was wrong though, too low, and the pilots didn't manage to pull up again.

Somehow, the very conflicted political scene in Poland was united by this tragedy, a shared secrifice. Along with the president and his wife, 17 MP's were killed, from every party. For the first time I can see the complete sincerity of the politicians. It is plain that each of them was just as shaken as I was.

I am mourning every lost life, feeling personally bereft as many of those people, liked and disliked, were often guests in my house through TV.

I am deeply touched and thankful to the people of Russia for their reaction. I hope that through this shared experience our relations, so strained for so long, will become simpler. Already, ironic as it is, thanks to the death of the man who so vehemently fought against the Katyn Lie, the Russians finally learned the truth of it.

Poland weeps now. But Poland shall survive as it always has, and hopefully it'll be stronger for it.
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Re: Prayers for Poland

Postby greyman » Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:41 am

NHE wrote:
Reytan wrote:God wanted the people killed in Katyn.

This was indeed a tragic plane crash, but I don't think God had anything to do with it. A pilot chose to land at a fog bound airport even when they had been advised not to. That sounds like human error to me.

But here's something I don't understand, planes land in the fog all the time here in the US. Was the presidential plane of Poland not equipped with radar to land in foggy weather?


Not only does the plane need to be equipped with such system but also the airport. This airport doesn't have any of those.
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Postby Zeureka » Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:19 pm

Thank you for all your views and comments on this...and although do not know much about the Russia-Poland situation for the moment (thanks for info), I remember well the time of Solidarnosc... I am glad to hear that there have been brave politicians moving things (so sorry one of them had to die with his wife...together with MPs from every party...), but lets hope that more of them will come and that things continue changing in a positive direction.
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Postby zinamaria » Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:30 pm

Below, a poem by Polish poet, Wislawa Szymborska (1923- ); Nobel for Literature 1996. (poem appears to be set in wartime Poland during the German occupation):

'There But For The Grace' or 'Could Have'

It could have happened.
It had to happen.
It happened earlier. Later.
Nearer. Farther off.
It happened, but not to you.

You were saved because you were the first.
You were saved because you were the last.
Alone. With others.
On the right. The left.
Because it was raining. Because of the shade.
Because the day was sunny.

You were in luck--there was a forest.
You were in luck--there were no trees.
You were in luck--a rake, a hook, a beam, a brake,
a jamb, a turn, a quarter inch, an instant.
You were in luck--just then a straw went floating by.

As a result, because, although, despite.
What would have happened if a hand, a foot
within an inch, a hairsbreadth from
an unfortunate coincidence.

So, you're here? Still dizzy from another dodge, close shave,
One hole in the net and you slipped through?
I couldn't be more shocked or speechless.
how your heart pounds inside me.

I am so sorry,
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Postby markofc » Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:38 am

Heavy loss for Poland. Many reputable people died. Poland is a strong country, was excited a lot of tragedy and certainly will come into existence.


thank You for the support
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Postby Reytan » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:28 pm

zinamaria wrote:Below, a poem by Polish poet, Wislawa Szymborska (1923- ); Nobel for Literature 1996.

Zina to tell the least Szymborska is not the best choice. Nobel Prize is not always the best indicator of the excellence. The following poem by Zbigniew Herbert is much better choice to honor our President.

The Envoy of Mr Cogito
by Zbigniew Herbert

Go where those others went to the dark boundary
for the golden fleece of nothingness your last prize

go upright among those who are on their knees
among those with their backs turned and those toppled in the dust

you were saved not in order to live
you have little time you must give testimony

be courageous when the mind deceives you be courageous
in the final account only this is important

and let your helpless Anger be like the sea
whenever your hear the voice of the insulted and beaten

let you sister Scorn not leave you
for the informers executioners cowards - they will win
they will go to your funeral with relief will throw a lump of earth
the woodborer will write your smoothed-over biography

and do not forgive truly it is not in your power
to forgive in the name of those betrayed at dawn

beware however of unnecessary pride
keep looking at your clown's face in the mirror
repeat: I was called - weren't there better ones than I

beware of dryness of heart love the morning spring
the bird with an unknown name the winter oak
light on a wall the splendour of the sky
they don't need your warm breath
they are there to say: no one will console you

be vigilant - when the light on the mountains gives the sign- arise and
as long as blood turns in the breast your dark star

repeat old incantations of humanity fables and legends
because this is how you will attain the good you will not attain
repeat great words repeat them stubbornly
like those crossing the desert who perished in the sand

and they will reward you with what they have at hand
with the whip of laughter with murder on a garbage heap

go because only in this way you will be admitted to the company of cold
to the company of your ancestors: Gilgamesh Hector Roland
the defenders of the kingdom without limit and the city of ashes

Be faithful Go
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Postby Reytan » Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:15 pm

Here is the speech that was supposed to be delivered by Lech Kaczynski - the President of Poland - on April 10, 2010 at Polish War Cemetery in Katyn during the ceremony of 70th Anniversary of Katyn crime.,461306.html
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