Zamboni's MS theory on thin ice?

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Zamboni's MS theory on thin ice?

Postby Jugular » Thu May 13, 2010 12:12 am

At least that's what the front page of the latest The Medical Post (Canada) proclaims. The main source for this hatchet piece is none other than our man Dr. Freedman – who now boldly predicts that the CCSVI theory will be laid to rest within a year.

Well, I guess we can all go home now.

I liked it where Dr. F. accuses Zamboni or ignoring the scientific method. You see "there’s a way of doing science through observation … [which] … usually evolves to the scientific method whereby you pose hypotheses and you build evidence, more or less to defeat you, so you can prove beyond any doubt that your observations are true.”

Gee, here I thought the scientific method involved using experiments to validate theories, not the other way around. I guess this must have been how the autoimmune model has persisted – by adhering to to a belief in spite of all evidence to the contrary.

No wonder we're in the mess we're in.
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Re: Zamboni's MS theory on thin ice?

Postby frodo » Thu May 13, 2010 1:12 am

Jugular wrote:At least that's what the front page of the latest The Medical Post (Canada) proclaims. The main source for this hatchet piece is none other than our man Dr. Freedman – who now boldly predicts that the CCSVI theory will be laid to rest within a year.

Well, I guess we can all go home now.

I liked it where Dr. F. accuses Zamboni or ignoring the scientific method. You see "there’s a way of doing science through observation … [which] … usually evolves to the scientific method whereby you pose hypotheses and you build evidence, more or less to defeat you, so you can prove beyond any doubt that your observations are true.”

Gee, here I thought the scientific method involved using experiments to validate theories, not the other way around. I guess this must have been how the autoimmune model has persisted – by adhering to to a belief in spite of all evidence to the contrary.

No wonder we're in the mess we're in.


At least Zamboni proposes a theory. Dr. Fredman simply says "unknown things produce unknown immune responses, which in an unknown way produce MS lesions"

Of course is difficult to prove wrong such an assertion, but is clear that he is the one not following the scientific method.
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Postby LR1234 » Thu May 13, 2010 1:21 am

Freedman is protecting his own investments. People are afraid of what they don't understand and Freedman does does not understand the vascular system.
Last edited by LR1234 on Thu May 13, 2010 10:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Zamboni's MS theory on thin ice?

Postby sbr487 » Thu May 13, 2010 1:50 am

Jugular wrote:Dr. Freedman – who now boldly predicts that the CCSVI theory will be laid to rest within a year.


CCSVI will be laid to rest and it will be auto-immune disease of unknown origin for next 40 years. I think we have a very bright future with Dr. Freedman ...
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Postby HappyPoet » Thu May 13, 2010 2:02 am

.
Dr. Freedman,

You're an ass for saying "...so you can prove beyond any doubt that your observations are true.”

A basic tenet of the scientific method is that one can NEVER prove a theory is true. One can only say an experiment or observation supports a theory.

We all know you must know this and so, too, must the editors of the magazine -- so the question becomes... how many favors did you have to call in to get that tripe published? I shouldn't think the magazine editors took a pay-off, or should I? Hmmm, I have to wonder if big pharma advertises in that disreputable magazine.

And you also know and fear that CCSVI will make you look like the idiot you really are, don't you? Everyone knows CCSVI will be around for much longer than "one year" -- why, just the waiting lists for patients are going into 2012.

The floodgates haven't opened yet, and when they do, where will you seek protection from the wave that's going to make you regret some of the half-witted, nonsensical comments you've made? Don't worry, we won't let you forget them.

Hey, I have a wonderful idea! Why not come here to TIMS-CCSVI and try to support your comments?

~HappyPoet
.
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Postby goldamier » Thu May 13, 2010 5:03 am

Freeman Simply has conflict of interest and should be taken out o the discussion all together along with others who do research on MS. If somebody has conflict of interest she/he would not get to vote or discuss the issue why should it be different on CCSVI?
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Postby bretzke » Thu May 13, 2010 6:38 am

The participants at the recent Canadian Parliament hearing opened up a can of worms that will really ratchet up the anti-CCSVI folks.

They compared the cost of Liberation to current drug therapies. The savings to the government's health care budget will be HUGE if Liberation replaces current treatments.

Hang on! I predict you'll be seeing a much more aggressive campaign to discredit Zamboni and the CCSVI theory.
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Postby Vhoenecke » Thu May 13, 2010 7:21 am

My theory is they can bring it! I am living proof that the theory works and I will get my face everywhere I can to show people how it works. This will not die it is just getting stronger. The more of us that are liberated and then visit Freedman in his cushy office at the cushy MS Society the better. I love this feeling of wellness and I will rest when all my MS friends can get the same thing.

Val
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Postby sbr487 » Thu May 13, 2010 7:26 am

bunch of neuros funded by pharmas are working overtime to come out with a dozen papers that will say CCSVI is false. All satans ganging up together ...
Where is the govt by the way? Oh, I forgot, they are busy banning vascular doctors!!!
Sometime I shudder to think what really has happened to US and Canada. Since when did these countries became so indifferent to human suffering ...
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Postby Habenoughyet » Thu May 13, 2010 7:27 am

Who else feels that the prices on pharma drugs for MS are soon going to drop...

HEY
"Never argue with stupid people... They bring you down to they're level and beat you with experience"
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Postby cheerleader » Thu May 13, 2010 7:42 am

What's interesting is that Zamboni had been building his theory for many years...starting with the observation of jugular "aneurysms" in 1990--written while he was a vascular surgeon in Sardinia (before his wife had her MS diagnosis) when he noted blocked jugular veins in many children.

1990) The so-called venous aneurysms. Phlebology 5: 45-50

and leading up to papers on iron deposition in the brain

"The big Idea: Iron-dependent inflammation in venous disease and proposed parallels in multiple sclerosis", 2006
in "The Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine" Vol. 99, pp. 589-593

and then he began looking at the doppler hemodynamics in MS....it's been years and years of research and observation. But it was published in VASCULAR journals, so Dr. Freedman and neurologists didn't read it.

The great thing is that they can read his research now...and all of the other papers that are finding similar correlations between venous insufficiency and the MS brain-- now numbered at 44 on the CSVI site.

http://csvi-ms.net/en/content/publicati ... -sclerosis

Dom (twistedhelix) posted Dr. Zamboni's work on here--and brought it in front on of MS patient and caregiver eyes. Guess we should have sent it to Dr. Freedman :)

cheer
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
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Postby bestadmom » Thu May 13, 2010 8:06 am

With 6000 Kuwaiti's being liberated and followed up for several years, the science will be there to either prove treating ccsvi abates ms or it doesn't. Freedman is digging himself into a deep hole and he'll never get out of it with his blatant lies.
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Postby sbr487 » Thu May 13, 2010 8:10 am

bestadmom wrote:With 6000 Kuwaiti's being liberated and followed up for several years, the science will be there to either prove treating ccsvi abates ms or it doesn't. Freedman is digging himself into a deep hole and he'll never get out of it with his blatant lies.


Good one! but I think that he is just a pawn in a bigger game that is being played. That fact that he is both arrogant and ignorant makes him the best candidate for such a role. If you observe, other Freedman (Khan) probably understood things a little better and is a bit quite (or is he?) ...
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Postby scotland » Thu May 13, 2010 8:36 am

I rent an office to a doctor in my building who receives the medical post, so I read the article if full.

It was full of almost desperate sounding statements based on about three year old information. It did not include any of the recent research or mention the 80-90 percent concurrence for ccsvi. It was alot of the
"better drugs are on the way stuff "again, (better and more expensive)
There was alot of big words that we 20 year MSers would never understand due to our failing cognitive abilities.
Typical .
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Thin Ice

Postby PointsNorth » Thu May 13, 2010 8:40 am

And Dr. Freedman sits on the Medical Advisory Committee of the Canadian MS Society. I wonder if he is speaking for the whole society? I will ask them if this is their official position.

http://www.mssociety.ca/en/research/res ... edadvisory
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