Is weight training bad if you have CCSVI?

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Is weight training bad if you have CCSVI?

Postby adamt » Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:56 am

4 Years ago i used to weight train 3 times a week, lift heavy (for me) so would work up a sweat, and i remember back then after training, my legs would always feel weaker than before starting.
i stopped going to the gym two years ago due to my mobility getting worse.

ive recently bought a home multigym. and started lifting weight again a few weeks ago, but notice how weak my legs get when training

even if im just working out my upper body and not the legs, they still get weaker.

After 5-10 minutes of sitting down after training my legs go back to 'almost' normal.

but thinking about it (as i have CCSVI, not treated yet) if more blood is being forced through my veins to compensate , does this explain why my legs get so weak?

two years ago when i lifted weights it wasnt so bad as more damage is done now to the myelin, so it wasnt as noticable.

is this sudden weakness in legs the greater increase in blood flowing through my veins - as a result of lifting weights = increased heart rate



would it be advised to stop weight training until i have been liberated?
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Postby VeeBee » Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:05 am

Adam, I have a competitive sporting background.

When you spend years trying to max out your body you find a balance. When you overdo it you get ill. If you underdo it you get ill.

Competitive athletes generally come into the over doing it catagory. Health wise their fitness helps them bounce back quicker than an untrained body.

You should have a better idea of how your own body is responding to training than your doctor. Some things just cannot be explained clinically.

I dont take mince meat because I know my stomach reacts negatively to it. Nothing scientific, I just know it makes me ill.

I know my body needs nourishment immediately after exercise or I become more prone to illness in one form or other.

You need a basic health plan.

I spent years writing down everything, diet, exercise, training intensity, illnesses, etc.

Particular times of the year I was more prone to illness than others. It was during prolonged high intensity periods.

Become the master of your own body & watch out for warning signs in your own exercise patterns.

Personally, I am not a big fan of heavy lifting & from a fitness perspective, endurance exercises are best.

Nowadays, we have pulse monitors. Superb for watching how your body is responding to particular exercise. Everyones body reacts differently.

The more you write down, the easier it is to see the bigger picture.

People like Dr Embry show a little science behind the theory.

There is a reason why the MS Society do not strongly advocate deficiency tests because when people realise what they are deficient in, they can make positive improvements.

Having MS guarantees you have some sort of deficiency & extra consideration but be given to how your body reacts to exercise.

Quercetin & green tea works well for me. I noticed it within a day because my body was depleted of this. It's well worth having a closer look at this. Im certainly convinced of this.

By the sounds of it, you may be suffering from lack of fitness & the safest way is just to ease your way back into it and find your balance.

When you have your fitness base back, you will be able judge it more accurately.

Quack science is in abundance within the medical profession. CCSVI has highlighted this fact.

I don't have MS, I've had a mysterious illness. I lost about 50lbs in the last 5 years or so. CCSVI cured me because it opened my eyes to what was going on within this industry. I went back to athlete mentality. In 3 months I ditched the medications and started focusing on the body. For the first time in years I've stopped bleeding at toilet trips. The pain is almost gone. Next step for me personally will be a weight gain strategy.

My sister has MS and CCSVI got us involved. Her health is improving. Our confidence is growing. We are following logic and not clinical science & it's working for us.

A deficiency doesnt care what disease you have, the illness will make you more prone to certain deficiencies.

If done wrongly, any form of exercise can have a negaitive impact.

Follow your own logic because utimately it's your own body. Quackery is rampant within this industry & many have a vested interest in sickness, from charities who want your free time and money to medical gurus who want to scientifically dissect your body away from health.

You have most of the answers within your own body and don't let anyone convince you otherwise. Your bodies needs will be slighly different from someone else so no specific answer is correct other than your own personal plan to address the required balances.
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Postby OK77 » Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:36 am

Superb post VeeBee, very informative stuff.

I have MS and have just been treated for CCSVI and wastold to wait a couple of weeks before resuming any sort of exertion on my body.

I had the treatment 2 weeks ago and have just started light swimming, only a few 10m laps. it felt so good to have done some exercise that i thought i'd do some press ups too. Felt fantastic so i'm really looking forward to going back to the gym. I know my body and will always 'listen' to it. I'm also very sensible and will ease myself back into my gym routine.

AdamT, as VeeBee says, our bodies are all different so a bit of commonsense and 'listen'ing to your body will do you just fine!
Last edited by OK77 on Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby adamt » Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:34 pm

i appreciate the detailed replies, but i was asking this:

is this sudden weakness in legs the greater increase in blood flowing through my veins - as a result of lifting weights = increased heart rate

would it be advised to stop weight training until i have been liberated?
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Postby Cece » Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:46 pm

I think lifting weights is fine and healthy, even for people with ccsvi. Any short-term weakness is transient, but the long-term health benefits of excercise are well known.

Short-term weakness could be because the oxygen or blood was diverted away from the brain to the muscles. It could also be because of any heat increases. An increase in the heart rate would send more blood to the head, which would theoretically result in improved oxygenation but some congestion or refluxing.

I think though you must know your body and your limits? I can enjoy the strength training machines at the gym but I tend to crash after doing cardio.
"However, the truth in science ultimately emerges, although sometimes it takes a very long time," Arthur Silverstein, Autoimmunity: A History of the Early Struggle for Recognition
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Postby Hockeydad » Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:48 pm

I'm not a doctor but I am an gym rat. My trainer (who was a medical doctor in Russia) has insisted that I keep my leg and cardio exercises going. He was worried about some atrophy setting in. I have not raised the weight that I use, but I don't do weight training and cardio in the same session, like I used to. My body told me everything in moderation. So, to each their own, but I do know that ,yes, I get tingly during it, but I find my mental state is greatly enhanced after a workout. I won't give into this disease. I will be liberated by years end and I want my body to still be in shape :lol:
RRMS since Feb , 2010. No drugs, just vitamins and exercise.
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Postby nagsy » Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:48 am

Hi,

I haven't got MS, but my thoughts on training heavy weights are as follows:

Any exercises done in the supine position are probably not good for PwMS. For example, when I do heavy bench press I know I get a head rush of blood and my jugulars become more prominent. In the light of CCSVI if you do have blockages then does this mean that the extra blood that cannot be forced through is actually being sent in the wrong direction???

Even when I do standing up exercises such as heavy barbell, my jugular veins become very prominent.

I would stick to light weights and perform more cardiovascular type training (swimming would be ideal).

Not sure if it answers the question but just my two bits worth!

Cheers,

Pinda

PS Once a PwMS has been liberated do you think it would be better to perform heavy weights which pumps up the jugulars with blood encouraging bloodflow???
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Postby costumenastional » Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:06 am

Some very good posts in here.
I can add that i was into heavy bodybuilding for 12 years. When i was dxed i stopped. Many neuros told me i should continue training as if nothing had happened. But as someone posted above, no one knows our bodies better than we do so...
Now, i dont know if some of my symptoms like weakness for instance are due to MS or atrophy. All i do nowadays and for the last 18 months is work in front of a pc and watch tv. I am confident that if i was able to settle with milder forms of exercise (difficult for someone like me) i would be in a way better condition. Not to mention that my first symptom goes back in 2004 but i declined rapidly only when i stopped working out.

It s a matter of character. I dont know if you should stop until you are liberated. No one really does. It is a well known fact that any kind of exercise is related with increased blood flow and thus it could harm you if CCSVI is really what causes demyelination via microhemorhage.
On the other hand, stopping will surely result in loss of muscle mass and other nasty results in the long term.
Tough decision since the procedure didn't change things all that much for me... it helped but not to the point i feel the confidence i once had you know?

Hope it changes everything for you. Good luck friend.
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Postby Loobie » Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:27 am

There are some great comments on here. I'm an ex jock also and had major problems getting past "no pain, no gain" and now work out my upper body hard, but only work out my legs for range of motion and MAYBE a little strengthening. When you get to the point where any leg effort creates weakness and massive tingling, your nerves are only going to let the muscle build so much. Even if you can push it harder, it's only going to get so built up because of the nerves. I think finding that balance, as everyone on here has echoed, is the key. That's impossible sometimes because there are times when you feel better and exercising harder makes perfect sense. But when your nerves are damaged, there's only so much it's going to do for you.
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Postby OK77 » Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:52 am

Heh, just did a set of 20 press ups after reading posts since my post, felt inspired! :D
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Postby scotland » Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:04 am

Hi
Two things I have found being a 20 year mser, 50 year old weight lifter.

ms is hugely effected by Body temp, keep you weight room cool, like the basement, keep lots of very cold water handy or sucking on ice cubes really helps me extend workouts.
The weight lifting will give a great endorphin push which should help MS overall.
I always feel better after I push my body a bit , weights really help.
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