CCSVI and CCVBP

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby NZer1 » Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:55 pm

I asked a few questions, posted some articles and this is the response I got from Dr Paul Thibault from Sydney Australia about CCSVI testing, viral and bacterial infections and spine alignment,
please read the post to see what has been shown then asked,
https://www.facebook.com/paul.thibault. ... 5670189658
"Nigel Wadham. Hi Paul,
do you guys do Zamboni protocol Doppler assessments with a person trained by Zamboni?
* All the research is saying that there needs to be training from Zamboni? Is this your experience?
Another question, is there a Fonar Upright MRI in Australia?
After seeing the results as well as reading your paper and the David Wheldon paper and site I am thinking that some testing options are getting closer to home?
Do you know of any Atlas Orthogonal studies in Australia? Or for that matter people using the correct AO method/machine?"
Pauls reply, "Regarding the correctness of Zamboni's protocol, what research are you referring to Nigel? Also I don't see a link beteween cervical spine trauma and MS."

I am struggling with some peoples 'openmindedness'

Regards,
Nigel
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby NZer1 » Sun Jul 29, 2012 4:23 pm

Just received a reply from Graham Dobson the 'Director for Technique' at the NZ College of Chiropractic;

"The are no AO practitioners in NZ but there are some in AUS. The main exponent and certified teacher of AO is Dr Joe Ierano who is in the Sydney area http://www.spine.net.au/

And also at http://www.atlasorthogonal.com.au/index.html



You’ll be interested to know that I organised and convened an Upper Cervical Specific Symposium here at the College 2 weekends ago. It was very successful with around 90 attendees 60 of whom were students. We had speakers from USA and AUS including (Joe Ierano) and NZL. I’ll attach the brochure so you can read about it. I’m excited to have so many students interested in Upper Cervical now. This should result in more such practitioners eventually in NZ and AUS. We are now getting support to acquire the equipment needed to take Upper Cervical Specific X-rays at the College and should have that all in place by 2013."

Positive steps :)
Nigel
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:45 am

That's fantastic Nigel. You accomplished a major feat.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby blossom » Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:46 am

atta boy nigel!! as it's been said, there are people who wait for it to happen and those "do their best" to make it happen.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby dania » Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:40 am

Dr Flanagan, who invented the Atlas Orthogonal Method and machine? And how long has this treatment been available?
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:19 pm

I am not much of a chiropractic historian. I was taught the original HIO method developed by BJ Palmer. NUCCA, Atlas Orthogonal, Blair, Pettibone and others further refined Palmer's work. Dr. Roy Sweat developed his particular method and instrument sometime around 1970 or so. There have been other similar devices likewise mounted on stands that were developed and are currently being used by chiropractors. There are also hand held devices. It's not just the instrument that makes a difference however. It's is also the specific x-rays and analysis that are used to determine the correction. The special headpiece of the table also needs to be set to prestress the craniocervical junction before the adjustment. On top of all that, Dr. Rosa has literally added a whole new dimension to the analysis in that he is basing his analysis and corrective vector on specific upright MRI images of the craniocervical junction. In contrast to upper cervical, I developed my own method of correction based my education and understanding of upper cervical strains (misalignments) and craniosacral. I used standard orthopedic, neurological, postural and kinesiological analysis to guide me.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby NZer1 » Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:26 pm

Dr is Dr Rosa able to get a correct adjust with only one 'movement'?
Is anyone able to adjust accurately without either xray analysis and measurement first or purely by experience?
I was able to tune race car engines by ear in the past, now we use computers and all sorts of analytical machinery!
Regards,
Nigel
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:03 pm

Nigel,
I had a P1800 Volvo years ago with side draft carburetors. It was nothing special but I brought it to an old Italian mechanic who worked out of a two car garage behind his house. His typical customers drove expensive sports cars like Mazzeratti, Lamborgini, Porshe and Jaguars, as well as Triumphs and MGs etc. to name a few. He was an phenomenal mechanic. There was no computer equipment at the time. He used floor jacks and creepers to get under cars. He used vaccum gauges to set the carbs and when he was done he always fine tuned them by ear. My little P1800 ran like a champ when he was done with it. The problem was getting the SU4 side draft carbs to hold their adjustment. As you know they didn't hold their adjustments that long. They needed regular adjustments like most carburetors due to design flaws. Computerized fuel injection works much better.

In light of all the co-morbities associated with most cases such as severe spondylosis and connective tissue damage, it's nearly impossible to achieve one percent correction in any of the cases. It would likewise be extremely difficult to accomplish a lasting correction with just one adjustment.

I am a big fan of technology. But as you know it's not the tool, its the mechanic that makes the difference.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby NZer1 » Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:26 pm

Completely understand Dr.
I am one of those pains in the butt, who want a one time fix.

I am also a fan of learning how to fix myself.

In my day I was just like your mechanic. I loved what I did with a passion and became good at it from experimenting, testing and proving I had the best results. I was first at doing many things that changed the direction of motor performance in the fields that I worked. In all of this there is allot of criticism, a lot of tall poppy syndrome and many haters of success. I have stuck my neck out allot and put my money where my mouth is.

I am well aware there are people who do things for money and talking with Graham Dobson and watching what is happening in NZ with Chiropractic and all forms of Spine Work there are the good, the bad and those who just don't care.

I prefer results supporting work people do, whether it costs money or not.

So I am wanting the best people helping me, that can be honest, can teach others and are willing to stand behind their talk.

Finding those people takes time, I'm glad I found you, thank you Dr F for what you are doing for us all.

Nigel
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:44 am

Thanks Nigel. I understand where you are coming from as well. Nobody is getting rich from the upright phase contrast cine MRI studies. Dr. Rosa is driven by his passion for the subject as much as I am. Fortunately, there are some heavy weights in science and medicine who are getting on board and lending their support. Most chiropractors are still asleep but some, especially those interested in upper cervical work, are slowly getting up to speed. TiMS members like yourself are way ahead of the curve and are playing a huge role in driving this research forward. We are real close to understanding the cause of neurodegenerative diseases. Mow, with a just little bit of luck we might find some sensible solutions, as well as prevention.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby mtf » Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:09 am

uprightdoc wrote:One of the TiMS members used his television set as a view box. He turned on a blank screen and put his x-rays on the screen. He then took pictures of the x-rays and downloaded them.

What happened that caused the several head and neck traumas?

Dr. Flalagan,
Sent them a e.mail and waiting for the replay. I'll try the tv...
When I was around 8 years old, and while I was hanging a bar with my legs, I had a big fall - head, neck and spine down to the rock ground(as I remember I was without conscience for few seconds and no tests were done to me).
When I was 29 years old (while holding my baby son) I felt in a stairs and twisted my back to protect my son from the fall (which I did). The result was a fall and hurt my coccyx and my back. Two months later I had my first MS episode (numbness in my left leg and foot).
After that I had several falls that I always attribute to MS. Now, I’m not so sure…
The funny thing I said to my Doc (neuro) that I heard noises when turning my neck, I had pain in my neck and he said I was crazy and getting old (back then I was 29 yo).
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:35 am

mtf wrote:...When I was around 8 years old, and while I was hanging a bar with my legs, I had a big fall - head, neck and spine down to the rock ground(as I remember I was without conscience for few seconds and no tests were done to me). When I was 29 years old (while holding my baby son) I felt in a stairs and twisted my back to protect my son from the fall (which I did). The result was a fall and hurt my coccyx and my back. Two months later I had my first MS episode (numbness in my left leg and foot)...After that I had several falls that I always attribute to MS. Now, I’m not so sure…The funny thing I said to my Doc (neuro) that I heard noises when turning my neck, I had pain in my neck and he said I was crazy and getting old (back then I was 29 yo).


MTF,
You have very similar types of trauma to Tore who posted his MRI previously. There is a good chance you have similar connective tissue injury and laxity (too loose) causing joint instability, as well as loss of motion and dysfunction. You also most likely have problems with the normal curves in your spine such as cervical kyphosis and scoliosis. In addition, you most likely have degeneration of the spine called spondylosis and misalignments of the segments of the spine. Damaged and dry connective tissues make grinding sounds. Joints that are under abnormal mechanical loads causing popping sounds due to compression of gasses in the joint fluids. It will be interesting to see what your x-rays look like.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby mtf » Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:23 am

Dr Flanagan,

Just had their replay. The answer is no to everything you asked for. They know the AO procedure because they were in the USA
. To be honest I'm afraid to spend more hope, time and money with people that has no experience.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:01 pm

I don't blame you MTF. I don't want you to waste, hope, time and money either.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby dania » Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:39 am

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