CCSVI and CCVBP

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby blossom » Sat Jul 27, 2013 5:58 pm

uprightdoc wrote:Thanks for the advice Vesta but I have very strong opinions. When a patient asks a question, I always give them my professional expert honest straight forward opinion based on decades of education and experience in health care and clinical sciences, not to mention neurodegenerative conditions. I know what pesudoscience is and after reading Body Talk's webpage, it isn't worth one minute of my time to look into it any further.


hi dr. flanagan, this is why i posted the body talk thing. wanted your thoughts. i put more hope and trust in your research and time learned and practice and theories with results than any dr. i crossed paths with in my life. i also see you as a person who explores and doesn't discount the ancients wisdom-scientificaly proven "yet" or not. everyday it seems what was discounted by science at one time they are coming up with proof that there is a lot to be learned from the past. i don't think there is anyone that can be that know all or be all person. but you are very close-few dr.'s if any besides you can come back when questioned on topics with a genuine feel for the earth-it's inhabitants and life in general.

the mind. body and spirit connection is being explored more and more by science. the energy that we and everything gives off. on and on. example, when as a child, i'd end up banging myself up, go in the house squawling, mom would clean me up, wrap it up, give me a little hug and say see that's not so bad -feel better now? and i did. the placebo healing touch. now, i realize body talk is a different animal than my mom's touch. what i'm getting at is as much as is known--there is more we don't know. if it can do no harm and ya can afford it go for it. just try not to get to crazy with stuff. although the crazy for some may be the answer for others. :wink:

one last switched up thing that should not be taking time from this site-what's your view on this video--then back to the bones and what people are here for--your help, knowedge and experience. as always thank you for hanging around and being here for everyone.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZmYcJ0DNBc


http://www.hinduism.co.za/water.htm
User avatar
blossom
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1368
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 4:00 pm
Location: south western pa.

Advertisement

Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby dania » Sun Jul 28, 2013 1:03 am

User avatar
dania
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1088
Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 3:00 pm
Location: St Lazare Quebec

Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby HappyPoet » Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:34 am

Hi DrF,

As soon as I read this post, copied below from the thread 'Your description of the "MS Hug"' on the general discussion forum, I immediately thought of myself and what you've told me about what caused my MS Hug symptoms--the horrible condition of my spine.

general-discussion-f1/topic22739.html

Ladymac wrote:Greetings Oceanfloats,

What you are describing to me on one hand sounds similar to the MS Hug when I had it, but that is what you are getting right now, the super tight feeling all the way around. It was like someone was squeezing me really hard and I had trouble breathing.

The other feeling though, beneath the shoulder blade I was suffering with that big time, especially at night. First it was one side and over the months, both sides. I couldn't lay on either side or on my back! My MS Neurologist had me go get an MRI of my Cervical Spine, and sure enough I had at my C5/C6 a bulge and compression of the spinal cord and had to have Spinal Fusion Surgery. I woke up from the day surgery with a plate, screws, with the fusion inside, but NO MORE PAIN in the shoulder blades. My Neuro knew that C5/C6 would make that pain and I had damage on the left and right side so it happened on both shoulder blades. Total Instant relief of those symptoms, just a harder than I thought recooperation from the surgery because our heads are very heavy so I wasn't quite prepared for my recovery taking several weeks. Now, I am glad I had it done! I am not saying that is what is wrong with you, but that Horrible stabbing going right through you, is how I would describe my pain and what we found for me. ...

My injections continue to wear off with each day worse than the day before--waiting until Sept 1 for my next injections is going to feel like forever... which is why I'm so eager to continue seeing you for treatment, especially since I can't find a surgeon to help my cervical spine.

Imho, Ladymac is a very lucky lady, indeed. She has a neuro who knows his stuff and who supported her decision to have cervical surgery! Successful cervical surgery!! Even if I could have found a willing surgeon, I doubt I would have been as lucky as Ladymac because I have some permanent cord damage.
User avatar
HappyPoet
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1401
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 3:00 pm

Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Tue Jul 30, 2013 1:25 pm

Hello Poet,
In my opinion, as I explained to you before, the "MS hug" is due to spondylosis. Fortunately, Ladymac had and limited area of involvement. Blossom similary has a limited area of involvement but surgeons still don't see the connection. Unfortunately, in contrast to Ladymac and Blossom you extensive damage in the cervical and thoracic spine so surgery isn't the best opition because surgeons wouldn't know where to begin. On a good note, you don't have cord damage and you have good strength. The problem is pain and inflammation caused by the spondylosis. I look forward to seeing what I can do before you get your next injections in September.
User avatar
uprightdoc
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1708
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:00 pm
Location: USA

Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby dania » Tue Jul 30, 2013 2:57 pm

This will show you how important moving, being upright is.
http://www.wimp.com/puppytherapy/
User avatar
dania
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1088
Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 3:00 pm
Location: St Lazare Quebec

Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby HappyPoet » Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:27 pm

uprightdoc wrote:Hello Poet,
In my opinion, as I explained to you before, the "MS hug" is due to spondylosis. Fortunately, Ladymac had and limited area of involvement. Blossom similary has a limited area of involvement but surgeons still don't see the connection. Unfortunately, in contrast to Ladymac and Blossom you extensive damage in the cervical and thoracic spine so surgery isn't the best opition because surgeons wouldn't know where to begin. On a good note, you don't have cord damage and you have good strength. The problem is pain and inflammation caused by the spondylosis. I look forward to seeing what I can do before you get your next injections in September.

I was of the understanding that since the MS Hug symptoms from my Jan '12 attack only remitted 50%, I must have some permanent cord damage even though the thoracic lesions of my Jan '12 MRI did not appear on my Oct '12 MRI???

Was my neuro wrong when he said that once the delicate tissue of the cord is damaged, the cord will never again function 100%, and this is the reason why I still have horribly painful MS Hug symptoms even though no lesions appear on my latest thoracic MRI (Oct '12)?

Am thrilled the lesions healed enough not to appear any more on that 1.5T MRI machine--if they hadn't healed as much as they have, I fear I would have become just like our dear TiMS' friend, George, who took his life because of his intractable painful MS Hug symptoms.

I look forward to working with you, DrF. August is going to be a challenging month, I guarantee you!

Thank you. :)
User avatar
HappyPoet
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1401
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 3:00 pm

Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:37 am

I don't know what the neuro is referring to when he says that you cord is permanently damaged. He would have to be more specific about his findings. While you do have signs of severe pain and inflammation, you don't have any signs of cord dysfunction in the motor or sensory tracts. Everything is working the way it should, especially the nerves for pain. I suspect the pain in your case is due to spondylosis causing inflammation and irritation of the nerve roots. The nerve pain is in turn causing severe myofascitis. You have a particulary bad case of the huggies so August is going to be challenging for both of us to say the least.
User avatar
uprightdoc
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1708
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:00 pm
Location: USA

Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby Robnl » Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:30 am

Dear dr. Flanagan,

I'v done an upright MRI few weeks ago;
Image

Symptoms that i have correlate 100% with a cervical stenosis, but neuro surgeon saw that csf stll flows and the spine itself is untouched..
End of this month an MRI of the full spine will be done, to check possible other spine issues.
I also think about a visit to a specialized atlas correct chiropractor, to check the atlas.

Do you have an opinion or advice?
if you need more info, just ask.. :mrgreen:

Regards,

Robert
User avatar
Robnl
Family Elder
 
Posts: 428
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:00 pm

Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:23 am

Hello Robert,
You have spondylosis (degeneration) from C3-C7. It is partcularly bad between C5/6 and C6/7. Your situation is similar to Blossom's bone spurs in the lower neck. Blossom has motor weakness signs that get worse when she flexes her neck forward. She also gets L'Hermitte's sign. Flexing the head forward tractions the cord over the spurs. Spondylosis can also cause tethering of the cord and nerve roots to the spurs that result in irritation on neck flexion. The motor tracts of the cord are close to the spurs on the front side of the cord. The sensory tracts are on the back side.

If you look at the gray streak between the two white streaks you can see that the indents haven't completely obliterated the white streaks in the front, which means that the spondylosis isn't touching the cord. The white streaks, however, are the epidural space which contains the vertebral venous plexus (VVP) of the cord. Compression of the VVP causes edema and venous hypertension. Venous hypertension causes decreased arterial flow to the cord and consequently ischemia. Chronic ischemia and edema can lead to degeneration of the cord. I suspect that compression of the epidural space also causes hydraulic effects that obstruct CSF flow in the cord.

In addition to the lower cervical spondylosis you may also have upper cervical misalignments. While specific upper cervical can help with blood and CSF flow through the craniocervical junction it won't do anything for the spondylosis in the lower spine which may further include the low back as well. If I were treating you I would use a full spine approach that addresses the spondylosis with physiotherapies such as distraction, flexion-distraction and electrotherapy for example.
User avatar
uprightdoc
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1708
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:00 pm
Location: USA

Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby Robnl » Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:06 am

Thx doc,

I'll wait for the results of the spine mri, and then decide what to do.

Regards,

Robert
Ps i have to add that i had a physical trauma at age 10, head was really hit hard with a leather ball. Head swung backwards
Last edited by Robnl on Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Robnl
Family Elder
 
Posts: 428
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:00 pm

Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby HappyPoet » Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:12 am

Thanks, DrF.

When I see my neuro in September, I'll ask about his comments regarding cord damage. I must admit that with my cognitive troubles, I might have misunderstood him.

I have to say it again -- spondylosis is a bitch.

See you tomorrow!
User avatar
HappyPoet
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1401
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 3:00 pm

Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:38 am

Robert,
What did you do that caused the endplates of all your cervical vertebra to cave and deform? Were you in an accident? Did you play sports? What was your occupation?
User avatar
uprightdoc
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1708
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:00 pm
Location: USA

Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:53 am

Poet,
My guess is that the neuro considered the TM lesions to be permanent scar tissue, which is not always clear cut to radiologists. In your case the lesions disappeared so they were probably signs of acute inflammation, ischemia or edema rather than permanently degenerated demyelinated nerves. That's a good sign. On the other hand, the damage to the spine is permanent and causing major irritation and inflammation to nerve roots and muscles. The spondylosis in your lower cervical spine and the misalignment in your upper cervical spine is further contributing to and compounding the problems in the thoracic spine. There are problems in the pelvis as well. That's the short list. I will see you tomorrow.
User avatar
uprightdoc
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1708
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:00 pm
Location: USA

Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby Robnl » Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:43 pm

uprightdoc wrote:Robert,
What did you do that caused the endplates of all your cervical vertebra to cave and deform? Were you in an accident? Did you play sports? What was your occupation?


Doc,

Game of soccer, attacker shoots, i was standing in front of the goal...BANG.
Dont remember pain, few days stiffness back of the neck.
24 years later..ms..started with slight coordination problems in the legs, that worsened. Pain in the right eye. Some lesions in the head, protein in the spine.
No cognitive symptoms, only physical, Mostly legs; weakness, imbalance, bad coordination, spasm, tremors, heat intolerante (extreme weakness)
Fatigue was nearly gone after ccsvi treatment in 2010, went from 8 hrs to 40 hrs werking per week. (Ict service desk) Still working 40 hrs a week

Rads,

Robert
User avatar
Robnl
Family Elder
 
Posts: 428
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:00 pm

Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:25 pm

Professional soccer players often show signs of traumatic brain injuries (hyperintensity signals). Heading the ball is a prime suspect. It's worse for female soccer players who have thinner smaller skulls, spines and neck muscles. It will be interesting to see what the rest of your spine looks like. The injuries to your spine are most likely the cause of your neurological signs and symptoms.
User avatar
uprightdoc
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1708
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:00 pm
Location: USA

PreviousNext

Return to Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency (CCSVI)

 


  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users


Contact us | Terms of Service

cron