EJC wrote:calcium it is then.
I would be inclined to buy a calcium that also has magnesium and zinc, though I can't find anything indicating they would be particularly useful as far as vitamin D in MS.
EJC wrote:calcium it is then.
EJC wrote:calcium it is then.
NZer1 wrote:Ed I understand the logic you are putting in here, the difference is that as Franz Schelling and others have found we have the added factor of hydraulicing blood flow.
If the hydraulic effect wasn't present then we would have a much simpler picture, or then again maybe that exists in other diseases, they haven't been looked at in this way before.
Therefore a concept layout;
The breach of the BBB is a 'primary' effect and we are looking for the causes.
The pumping effect (CCSVI/Reflux/back jets) that cause the breach of the BBB are a primary issue.
An infection that causes the breach of the BBB is also a primary effect.
The weakening of the BBB by for instance the 'Vit D' effect is also a primary effect.
Hereditary and Geographical effect is also required.
Diet, exercise, stress and smoking are possibly secondary compounding effects, rather than primary.
NZer1 wrote: "From; CCSVI in New Zealand (Me)
The hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis and the sympathetic nervous system
http://www.envita.com/lyme-disease/fina ... e-disease/
Idiopathic disease is defined as one that develops without any apparent or known causes. That is the term used for fibromyalgia, autoimmune diseases, including Lupus and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.
From; CCSVI in New Zealand (Me again!)
(Medical Xpress)—Research led by Queen Mary, University of London, has opened up the possibility that drug therapies may one day be able to restore the integrity of the blood-brain barrier, potentially slowing or even reversing the progression of diseases like multiple sclerosis (MS). The study, funded by the Wellcome Trust, is published in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
Squeakycat wrote: We have no idea how much vitamin D is needed by someone with MS or how that varies with the course of the disease. It could turn out to be very little, or it could turn out to be a lot. It would be nice if the different trials tested this. It seems rather easy to test.
MarkW wrote:Ther Adv Neurol Disord. 2012 Jul;5(4):187-98.
Relationship between 25-OH-D serum level and relapse rate in multiple sclerosis patients before and after vitamin D supplementation.
Pierrot-Deseilligny C, Rivaud-Péchoux S, Clerson P, de Paz R, Souberbielle JC.
Service de Neurologie 1, Hôpital de la Salpêtrière, Assistance Publique-Hôpitaux de Paris, Université Pierre et Marie Curie (Paris VI), Paris, France.
Vitamin D could play a protective role in multiple sclerosis.
In an observational, uncontrolled study, vitamin D3 supplementation (3010 IU/day on average) was given to 156 consecutive patients with relapsing-remitting multiple sclerosis, under first-line immunomodulatory therapy and with initial 25-OH-D serum level lower than 100 nmol/l (40 ng/ml). Relapses were determined for 29.1 ± 8.4 months during vitamin D and 29.8 ± 10.1 months before supplementation. The 25-OH-D level was measured before supplementation and several times during supplementation. The incidence rate of relapses before and during supplementation was estimated using negative binomial regression models with follow-up durations as offset terms. The incidence rate and incidence rate ratio of relapses at various 25-OH-D levels were also calculated using negative binomial regression models.
In 76 patients, immunomodulatory therapy preceded vitamin D supplementation (by 4.2 ± 2.7 years) and in 80 patients both treatments were started simultaneously. Under supplementation, the 25-OH-D level increased from 49 ± 22 nmol/l to 110 ± 26 nmol/l on average. Pooling data collected before and during supplementation, we found a significant strong inverse relationship between the relapse incidence rate and the 25-OH-D level (p < 0.0001), suggesting that vitamin D did indeed influence the relapse rate. Results of univariate, bivariate and multivariate analyses were analogous: in the multivariate model adjusted for age, disease duration and previous use of immunomodulatory therapy, every 10 nmol increase in 25-OH-D level was associated with a reduction in the relapse incidence rate of 13.7%. Dividing iteratively the population made up of pooled periods into two subgroups according to the 25-OH-D levels, the relapse incidence rate ratio decreased as the 25-OH-D level increased up to 110 nmol/l, but a plateau effect was observed beyond this limit.
Further studies are warranted for accurate quantification of the vitamin D effect.
PMID: 22783368 [PubMed]
Free PMC Article http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... ool=pubmed
Squeakycat wrote:If we accept, at least for the sake of argument that MS exists because of a breakdown in the blood brain barrier, then I think all the other pieces you mention fall into place quite nicely.
1. Vitamin D directs the final differentiation of veins so if the mother is vitamin D insufficient at this point in fetal development, we end up with malformed veins. There are missing veins. Hypoplastic veins. Stuck valves. All the result of the mother's vitamin D deficiency at a crucial point in development.
2. Vitamin D also manages the health of tissue it creates, in this case the endothelium so without adequate vitamin D, the body may well be unable to quickly repair damage to the blood brain barrier. The damage could come from constant, turbulent blood flow. From infectious agents such as EBV, from Dr. Wheldon's c. pneumonia, from smoking, from alcohol, from obesity, lack of exercise. All of these things could damage the blood brain barrier.
But only one thing manages the health of the blood brain barrier, vitamin D.
3. Both the hereditary effect and geographical effect are well explained and linked to vitamin D. The MHC/HLA genes implicated in MS are expressed by Vitamin D. There is a 2nd generation effect where if the grandmother is vitamin D deficient at the time of the birth of the mother, the grandchildren end up with induced vitamin D processing gene deficiencies. They are not inherited. The mother and father may well not have the same defect, nor the grandmother.
So you have latitude accounting for vitamin D deficiencies and some induced gene defects brought on by vitamin D deficiencies.
4. Perhaps the problems of turbulent blood flow causes damage over time that sets pwMS up for infections and it takes decades to reach a point where the barrier keeps breaking down.
Perhaps it is simply that we tend to have more vitamin D when we are younger and as that sufficiency decreases, we are left with less ability to cope with the ongoing onslaught on the BBB.
5. Once there is a breech in the BBB, all sorts of awful things start happening that injure nerves. The immune system can "over-react" and cause damage. The immune system evolved in a pretty hostile environment and may well have not down-regulated itself to the less threatening environment we face today. We don't know if demyelinated axons can be remyelinated. We don't know if the processes that get started when something that crosses the BBB will continue, even if we are able to patch up the leak.
Lots of questions still to be answered.
MarkW wrote:Hello Ed,
I referenced a paper which showed that pwMS with higher D3 level had fewer relapses. This reached a plateau at 110 mmol/L in blood, so I recommend pwMS target a level of 125mmol/L. The number of relapses does not correlate closely with progression of MS but most pwMS I know welcome fewer relapses.
We need to keep in mind that we are dealing with a supplement which costs much less than 50 USD a year to take. I do not expect to have conclusive research of Vit D3 blood levels needed in pwMS, nor to understand the mode of action of Vit D3. For CCSVI syndrome and Vit D3 levels I recommend we adopt the approach of treating symptoms (stenosed veins and low D3). Medicine and Pharmacy have done this for centuries, it is only in recent years that knowledge of drug actions on humans has emerged.
For me a crucial fact is that prior to the Industrial Revolution MS was unheard of. For me, treating stenosed veins and increasing Vit D3 levels are reasonable actions for MS, not provable treatments.
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