Vit D3>125nmol/L min in blood. FIRST SMALL STEP for pwMS

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Vit D3 research from Iran

Postby MarkW » Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:21 am

Interesting paper presenting data not opinions........................MarkW

Acta Med Iran. 2013 May 30;51(5):289-92.
Comparison of Vitamin D3 Serum Levels in New Diagnosed Patients with Multiple Sclerosis versus Their Healthy Relatives.Mazdeh M, Seifirad S, Kazemi N, Seifrabie MA, Dehghan A, Abbasi H.
Source
Department of Neurology, Hamadan University of Medical Sciences, Hamadan, Iran. sseifirad@gmail.com.

Abstract
Multiple risk factors are introduced for Multiple Sclerosis (MS). Recent studies have suggested a possible correlation between vitamin D deficiency and an increase risk of MS. This study was therefore undertaken to compare vitamin D levels in new cases of MS and their relatives as healthy controls. Seventy five new diagnosed MS patients and 100 matched healthy controls among their relatives were enrolled in this study. Two groups were matched for gender, age, season in which serum level of vitamin D was checked and region and diet. Serum levels of 25-hydroxy vitamin D was measured, recorded and analyzed. Seventy five patients (57 female and 18 male) and 100 healthy subjects (75 female and 25 male) were enrolled in this study. The mean serum levels of 25-hydroxy vitamin D in case and control groups were 11.31 and 17.9 ng/ml, respectively (P=0.003). Compared to the healthy subject, serum levels of vitamin D were significantly lower in patients with MS. This difference was only significant in women. Observed difference of vitamin D levels of both groups were significant in summer. This study continues to support the role of vitamin D deficiency in MS.
PMID: 23737310 [PubMed - in process]
Mark Walker - Oxfordshire, England. Registered Pharmacist (UK). 11 years of study around MS.
Mark's CCSVI Report 7-Mar-11:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/8359854/MS-experts-in-Britain-have-to-open-their-minds.html
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Re: Vit D3>125nmol/L min in blood. FIRST SMALL STEP for pwMS

Postby jimmylegs » Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:34 pm

one of these days someone will think to collect zinc and mag data at the same time :S
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Re: Vit D3>125nmol/L min in blood. FIRST SMALL STEP for pwMS

Postby NZer1 » Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:41 am

Maybe also 'someone' will click that the best source is natural supplementation, and that man made chemicals are not forms that provide the synergistic needs of our bodies.

One supplement derived by chemists is not the whole picture in mineral and vitamin deficiency! Even the blends that are 'made' are not enough to create change for our deficiencies. We 'assume' that we understand the functions of our bodies and as time and research progresses we learn more about the interactions where one element is requiring others to engage a chain reaction rather than the stop start concept the was previously held.
Our bodies breakdown and recycle cells as they go through cycles for metabolism, many of the basic elements are used several times whilst they are with us.

:)
Recycling is not only for our external waste!
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Re: Vit D3>125nmol/L min in blood. FIRST SMALL STEP for pwMS

Postby jimmylegs » Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:21 am

en route to optimal nutrient status, a healthy diet is always the essential underpinning. the whole food foundation always comes before supplements, whole food natural source supplements being far and away superior to synthetic forms, and balanced supplemental intakes superior to isolated megadoses, absolutely. personally, i'd still be a vegan if I believed isolated nutrients could do it all.
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Re: Vit D3>125nmol/L min in blood. FIRST SMALL STEP for pwMS

Postby NZer1 » Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:48 am

Maybe whole foods will one day return to being good for you?

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/artic ... icide.aspx

;)
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Re: Vit D3>125nmol/L min in blood. FIRST SMALL STEP for pwMS

Postby jimmylegs » Mon Jun 17, 2013 2:43 am

maybe. voting for best practices with our food spending dollars is key.
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Re: Vit D3>125nmol/L min in blood. FIRST SMALL STEP for pwMS

Postby MarkW » Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:52 am

jimmylegs wrote:the whole food foundation always comes before supplements, whole food natural source supplements being far and away superior to synthetic forms, and balanced supplemental intakes superior to isolated megadoses

For vitamin D3 it is difficult for most pwMS to achieve good blood levels without taking a supplement, as most pwMS cannot get sufficient D3 from sunlight or fish. Also D3 is not a synthetic chemical, it is purified from natural sources (fish and lanolin). Most pwMS have low levels of D3 and a supplement is the only affordable option (5 gb pence per day) to achieve 125nmol/L in blood. Getting regular doses of sunshine is best but a supplement with a naturally derived source of D3 is far better than low D3 levels.
MarkW (its too hot to sunbathe at the moment, even here in Oxford.)
Mark Walker - Oxfordshire, England. Registered Pharmacist (UK). 11 years of study around MS.
Mark's CCSVI Report 7-Mar-11:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/8359854/MS-experts-in-Britain-have-to-open-their-minds.html
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Re: Vit D3>125nmol/L min in blood. FIRST SMALL STEP for pwMS

Postby jimmylegs » Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:00 am

likely it's difficult because of the low zinc levels seen in your average ms patient. I could not believe the radical change in my response to d3 intakes after getting my serum zinc level into the high normal range. my serum response to a set intake of d3 more than tripled!
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Re: Vit D3>125nmol/L min in blood. FIRST SMALL STEP for pwMS

Postby NZer1 » Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:32 am

I think that after reading a broad spectrum of judgements on Vit D people will realise that the supplements are not the full picture when Vit D is implicated as co-factor in any disease!

The reason is far broader than a chemical change from supplementing and that is something that only personal research will uncover.

The synergy required to absorb and process many varied chemicals as well as the Ultra Violet Rays make the suggestion that Vit D is vital in any health situation a very complex understanding to process.

Blood tests show there is a deficiency in 'the chemical' that is tested for, then there are multiple processes by our bodies to produce the huge variety of outcomes that are influenced by the 'blood tested' Vit D form.

Supplements will change the outcome of the Vit D blood test, BUT, will that change your health?

Research cannot provide that answer, so we have be aware of the complexity of the Vit D processes.

One size fits, oh that's right, one size only!

;)
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Re: Vit D3>125nmol/L min in blood. FIRST SMALL STEP for pwMS

Postby Squeakycat » Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:58 pm

NZer1 wrote:I think that after reading a broad spectrum of judgements on Vit D people will realise that the supplements are not the full picture when Vit D is implicated as co-factor in any disease!

The reason is far broader than a chemical change from supplementing and that is something that only personal research will uncover.

The synergy required to absorb and process many varied chemicals as well as the Ultra Violet Rays make the suggestion that Vit D is vital in any health situation a very complex understanding to process.

Blood tests show there is a deficiency in 'the chemical' that is tested for, then there are multiple processes by our bodies to produce the huge variety of outcomes that are influenced by the 'blood tested' Vit D form.

Supplements will change the outcome of the Vit D blood test, BUT, will that change your health?

Research cannot provide that answer, so we have be aware of the complexity of the Vit D processes.

One size fits, oh that's right, one size only!

;)
Nigel

Nigel,

Think you are making this much more complex than necessary. Just an opinion.

Evolutionary biology teaches us that life evolved to take advantage of things that are widely available and abundant in our environment.

That includes things like water, air, sunlight, calcium and so on.

All the details of how those work in our bodies are very complex.

But there is no question that they are vital to life.

You could spend a life time trying to fully understand what water does and how it does it in the body, but the very simple fact remains that we stop living without it.

And finally, everything in your body is a "chemical."
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Re: Vit D3>125nmol/L min in blood. FIRST SMALL STEP for pwMS

Postby jimmylegs » Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:10 pm

You could spend a life time trying to fully understand what water does and how it does it in the body, but the very simple fact remains that we stop living without it.
exactly! essential nutrients aren't called essential for nothing :)
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Re: Vit D3>125nmol/L min in blood. FIRST SMALL STEP for pwMS

Postby NZer1 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:29 am

Multiple Sclerosis Research Australia
Australian and Dutch researchers have shown that higher sun exposure, but not vitamin D levels, are associated with lower levels of fatigue and depression in people with MS.
http://www.msra.org.au/sun-exposure-low ... ression-ms
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Re: Vit D3>125nmol/L min in blood. FIRST SMALL STEP for pwMS

Postby Squeakycat » Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:59 am

NZer1 wrote:Multiple Sclerosis Research Australia
Australian and Dutch researchers have shown that higher sun exposure, but not vitamin D levels, are associated with lower levels of fatigue and depression in people with MS.
http://www.msra.org.au/sun-exposure-low ... ression-ms
Very interesting study.

Several things to note about this study:

    ** The benefits of sun exposure were for fatigue and depression, not cognition or anxiety.
    ** Similar benefits were shown, but were not statistically significant after adjusting for sun exposure, for levels of 25(OH)D above 80 nmol/L


Abstract

OBJECTIVE:


Insufficient sun exposure and vitamin D deficiency have both been associated with increased risk of multiple sclerosis (MS). Depression, anxiety, fatigue and cognitive impairment are prevalent and disabling symptoms in MS. Our objective was to examine the associations between personal sun exposure and serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D (25(OH)D), and depression, anxiety, fatigue and cognition.

METHODS:

A total of 198 participants with multiple sclerosis were followed prospectively for an average of 2.3 years. Assessments of serum 25(OH)D, sun exposure, depression, anxiety and fatigue were carried out biannually; cognition was assessed annually.

RESULTS:

Personal reported sun exposure was inversely associated with depression scores (β -0.26 (95%CI -0.40, -0.12);P ≤ 0.001) and fatigue scores (β -0.65 (95%CI -1.23, -0.07); P = 0.028). Only high levels of 25(OH)D (>80 nm) were inversely associated depression scores (β -0.64 (95%CI -1.15, -0.13); P = 0.015), but this was not significant after adjustment for reported sun exposure. No associations were seen between reported sun exposure or serum 25(OH)D levels and anxiety or cognition scores.

CONCLUSION:

We found that higher levels reported sun exposure, rather than 25(OH)D levels, were associated with less depressive symptoms and levels of fatigue. The role of UV or light therapy will need to be evaluated in randomized controlled trials to confirm an effect on these symptoms in MS.
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Re: Vit D3>125nmol/L min in blood. FIRST SMALL STEP for pwMS

Postby 1eye » Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:20 am

As it has been noted elsewhere, sun exposure will release from its storage in your skin a substance which is used everywhere in your body for vasodilation. Vitamin D does not have this effect. The substance is nitric oxide, a molecule which combines the 2 main components of air -- nitrogen and oxygen.

This nitric oxide in your skin is not made internally by your body. It comes from the food you eat (so eat right).

Sunlight at higher frequencies (more "ultra" violet light) can also be used in your body to produce vitamin D.

Vasodilation is the automatic natural equivalent of the CCSVI procedure, but it is happening all the time in every healthy blood vessel in your body (60,000 miles of them). It is the expansion of the diameter of a blood vessel. Other substances and signals contract them when necessary. Vasodilation (and vasoconstriction) are necessary for cooling and drainage.

Drainage is one of the primary function of veins, recirculating blood that has had food and oxygen removed from it by your organs.

Temperature control requires warm blood to be routed to cooler places and cooler blood to warmer places in our bodies. This routing requires both dilation and constriction of vessel diameters. Temperature is so well controlled by healthy circulation that it can be measured to three digits of accuracy (less than a few parts in a thousand) by an ordinary fever thermometer.

Loss of temperature control and good drainage might be all that is necessary to give a person "MS". Combined with low vitamin D, and other critical nutrients, one may be even more likely to get it.

The Scots who did some of the ultra-violet/nitric-oxide research showed that, in contrast with vitamin D production, only the safer, more visible, lower energy, longer wavelengths of ultra-violet (UVA, commonly seen in "black light" bulbs), are necessary for nitric oxide release from skin. That means even on partly cloudy days, early or late in the day, or at higher latitudes, sunlight is used when it shines on skin, releasing stored nitric oxide.

Higher frequency, more invisible, more energetic ultra-violet light, or UVB, known to be used in vitamin D synthesis, is probably just as useful for nitric oxide release as well.
"Try - Just A Little Bit Harder" - Janis Joplin
CCSVI procedure Albany Aug 2010
'MS' is over - if you want it
Patients sans/without patience
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Re: Vit D3>125nmol/L min in blood. FIRST SMALL STEP for pwMS

Postby Squeakycat » Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:46 am

1eye wrote:As it has been noted elsewhere, sun exposure will release from its storage in your skin a substance which is used everywhere in your body for vasodilation. Vitamin D does not have this effect. The substance is nitric oxide, a molecule which combines the 2 main components of air -- nitrogen and oxygen.
Dr. Robert Furchgott, a colleague of Dr. Sclafani at SUNY Downstate, won the Nobel Prize for unraveling how this process works, the combination of calcium with arginine.

I would argue that this process is not divorced from Vitamin D, but is in fact controlled by regulatory hormone Vitamin D on the basis that almost anything in the body involving calcium is controlled by Vitamin D. I would be very surprised if the process unraveled by Dr. Furchgott is not initiated and controlled by Vitamin D, though it doesn't appear that anyone has looked at this yet.

Details of Dr. Furchgott's findings are here.
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