Using Artery's as stents ....

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Using Artery's as stents ....

Postby MrSuccess » Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:53 pm

Thought of the day :

Can an artery be used as a stent ? Is it possible to use a small section of an artery ..... inserted into a vein ..... to scaffold internally .... a stenosis ?

Is there a place in our body's that we can source a vein ..... with little or no complications ?

Our body's should not '' reject '' our own tissue . Our Immune system should accept our own tissue ..... and not react to expel or reject a foreign object ...... such as a metal stent.

Has - Is ...... this been researched ?

From what I have read here on TIMS ..... veins are more rigid and have greater ability to withstand pressure . :idea:

Can anyone direct me to any information regarding the differences between a vein and an artery . Medical Illustrations would be appreciated.

One more thought .

What about using '' plac '' [ sp ] as a inner wall lining in a collapsed vein ?

Is this not ..... Natures ... cement ? Maybe ...... just maybe ...... the stuff that clogs artery's ....... can be put to good use ..... holding veins open ?

Just throwing some ideas out there ........

I really like the vein held open by an artery idea .

Yes ..... I wonder also ..... how to stop the artery-stent from migrating .

That's for our medical genius's to figure out . :wink:

I don't have all the answers . :roll:

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Re: Using Artery's as stents ....

Postby AlmostClever » Wed Jan 26, 2011 3:16 pm

MrSuccess wrote:Yes ..... I wonder also ..... how to stop the artery-stent from migrating .

Mr. Success

Perhaps a stitch or 2. This would require open neck surgery I'm sure but it wouldn't go anywhere! plus you could make up cool stories to tell people about the scar on your neck!
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. - Al Einstein
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Postby Cece » Wed Jan 26, 2011 3:58 pm

Using an artery has been discussed before with the conclusion being that we need all our arteries. The graft of choice would seem to be the saphenous vein which is in the leg.

Shockingly the jugular is sometimes itself used as a graft for elsewhere in the body. I really don't like that.
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Postby MrSuccess » Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:06 pm

Cece - which would you rather have ?

Good flow from your brain to your heart ...... ........ and no CCSVI .....

Or ....... all of your leg artery's .... all ship shape ......... and CCSVI .....

I know what MY choice would be ........... :wink:

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Postby EJC » Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:55 pm

Lets not run before we can walk.

Whilst I'm one of the biggest fans of this procedure (it's helped my wife tremendously) I'd like the medically fraternity to understand the ramifications of what they've found before we start grafting other bits of our bodies elsewhere.

I like the way you're thinking though.

I had a conversation with Dr Reid at the Edinburgh Health Clinic about stents. His career has mostly revolved around arterial work and the implementation of stents being the absolute unquestionable solution.

He had to have a major rethink after his first introduction to CCSVI. A mind as well informed as his was currently puzzled as to what the final answer will be, possibly some form of redesigned stent specifically for this purpose was what I suggested and he seemed to think that was probably the only logical progression from where we are now.

There's a quick way to $Billions if any of you out there think they can come up with a viable design for that!
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Postby jackiejay » Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:04 pm

does anyone know if there is much research being done among private companies to solve the "stent" problem...
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Postby MrSuccess » Wed Jan 26, 2011 6:33 pm

EJC - nobody is suggesting that '' we walk before we run '' .

How did you come to make that statement ?

My question - idea ..... is solely intended to provoke new ideas and
ways and means of solving a problem . Sooo .... '' let's not piss on
an idea ..... without exploring it's merit "

You can quote me .

Carrying on ........

I'm looking forward to having my question- idea .... explained
and/ or refuted by those with medical knowhow.

How are veins different from artery's ?

Can a vein be '' sleeved '' ..... with an artery ?

Would it graft together ? Has this been done ? If not ....why not ?

Lot's of questions need an answer here ....

Can '' plaque '' be used to stiffen a flaccid vein ?
If it hardens artery's [ bad ] ..... can it be transferred and moulded
into tubes to support a soft vein ? Natures stent ? Can they be made
in the Lab ..... then inserted ? Has this been tried ? If not ...Why not?

What's wrong with thinking of any and all possibility's ?

Yeah ..... I know ...... let's not run before we walk .....

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Postby marcstck » Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:54 am

Mr. Success, arteries are more rigid than veins. They are designed to withstand the very high pressures created by blood being pumped from the heart. Veins are much more supple, and handle the much reduced pressures of blood heading back to the cardiac chambers.

Also, the problem with stents generally is not rejection, as it is with organ transplantation. Rather, stents can migrate if the vessel they are placed in increases in diameter, as can happen to an upper jugular stenosis when a stenosis lower in the vessel is properly addressed.

Thrombosis of stents is not a function of rejection, but rather of the body's natural reaction to trauma (this is why it can occur in veins that have been ballooned), and of blood cells getting trapped in the mesh of the stent. It's thought that the danger of this may be greater in stented veins because the pressure and speed of the fluid passing through the vessel is much lower than that in arteries.

Rejection occurs when foreign tissue is placed in the body (as in organ transplantation), which the immune system targets as a harmful invader, and attacks as such.
Last edited by marcstck on Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby EJC » Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:57 pm

So the ideal solution would be a stent that expands and contracts within set parameters inside the wall of the vien. i.e opens from 5mm upto 15mm.

As explained above, viens and arteries are different vessels that serve different purposes.

Stenting for viens needs something completely bespoke and left field.
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Postby MrSuccess » Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:27 pm

Hi Marc - good to hear from you . Thanks for providing that information .
I'm sure many readers appreciate it. I already am aware of the V vs A differences ..... :wink:

I was hoping to get your feedback on my '' plaque stent '' idea.

And any other '' out there '' concepts I can dream up :lol:

Maybe it could work. Maybe......

Unfortunately ...... the concept of this post of mine ..... was lost on a certain poster.

What I'm trying to do here .... is go OUTSIDE of what is accepted knowledge ....... and make everyone THINK about the possibility's to problem solve .

I am convinced that keeping liberated veins OPEN has great merit . It seems to be a 50-50 chance of this happening with balloon inflation methodology .

I was sitting on the fence .... when it came to stents . Not anymore.

I join in and endorse Professor Zamboni's opposition to having them inserted in stenosed veins . Too many scary situations have come to light.

That said ..... I agree fully 100% ..... that some effort and procedure must be crafted .... to keep the restricted veins from continually collapsing . The current options ....... are not acceptable .

So what else can be done ?

Not sure if my ideas are '' do-able '' ......

That remains to be proven .

......still putting the horse before the cart ..... :wink:

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