Viruses and CCSVI

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Viruses and CCSVI

Postby Interrupted » Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:28 am

Does anyone know of any studies that can link viruses to causing venous problems and constriction?

I have long been convinced that my problems (MS and CFS) stem from viral problems and I know that I have had issues with Mycoplasmas and possibly Herpes viruses of some sort, judging from cold sores since childhood with regards the latter. The thing is that while I believe in CCSVI, I feel it is likely more the result or fallout caused by something more than simply genetic or random.
Was reading this today and it fell on welcoming ears from me http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK2494/ BUT I am not a doctor and have long lost the ability to process and understand long and complicated theories thanks to MS, which is frustrating.

I have tried for years to get anti-virals out of the doctors here in the UK with zero success, so now i'm trying to tie things together and put some weight behind my argument in the instance I actually meet someone willing to listen. So any studies or papers anyone knows of in the area, I would be very grateful to (try and) read.

Hopefully when things are more advanced I will be able to go for CCSVI surgery again with more success than the last time, but until then I want to explore this more and hopefully understand it better.

I also heard that there is someone from the US on here who combines Avonex and Valtrex (I think?) with great success - does anyone know who it is?

Thank you for any help, Jacqueline x
28/07/10, 04/10/10, 16/11/10 - Dopplers x3 Ireland, Poland, Scotland.
12/10/10 - 1st procedure, Poland. Symptoms worsened. No improvement.
Verdict: I urge caution + am taking a back seat watching research ATM.
13/02/12 - Started Wheldon ABX protocol.
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Postby Shannon » Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:39 pm

Hi - I have also been interested in this theory for quite awhile, since virus' have even set off exacerbations for me in the past. I came across an article ecently that you might be interested in. It deals with the retrovirus theory described in your article and the studies being done with HERV-W. I have a Biology major (close to a degree, soon) and I find bacteria and viruses to be very interesting in the pathogenisis of many things in life. Please read the article. http://discovermagazine.com/2010/jun/03 ... :int=3&-C= It is a bit long, but well worth the read. It does not describe MS at first, but you will see how MS ties into it as you read further.

I was amazed with it myself, because my paternal Grandfather had paranoid schizophrenia. There was also an article of major interest in Discover magazine that I came across at the haircut place (I took the mag home!) about a Biologist who believes that our DNA is transformed by bacteria and virus' and that we even acquire their DNA into our own genomes. I will try and find the name of the woman and the article, since I have now misplaced the mag.

I have had many viruses in my life, including lifelong herpes (cold-sore prone), human papilloma virus (which I believe I acquired in college, close to onset age), various influenzas and what-not. Oh, and chicken pox. I have been a chronic nail biter all of my life (I still am), and so you can only imagine what I have been exposed to. Anyhow, I would love to have some treatments that deal directly with retroviruses. I take Copaxone now, and have not had CCSVI treatment. I also think that there is some alternative etiology for CCSVI. I certainly believe that it exists, but when so many restenose, it makes me think that there is something actively working against the procedure.

I wish you the best and hope we can find out what it's all about someday. I have a very string suspicion about genetics of both humans and pathogens as a sure culprit. I have to leave it to the research scientists like everybody else, as MS has also taken so much of my mind and understanding of things away. I still forge ahead in finishing my degree next year, with only 4 more classes to go. One class this Fall is Neuroanatomy an the other is Organic Chemistry II. I just want the cognitive ability that I have now to continue a little longer to allow me to pass these! Then, one more Physics class and the lab for Orgo. I started this journey 20+ yrs. ago and have working my way slowly since 2001 to finish. I will be more proud of myself than anyone else could possibly be when I finish. Only I know how treacherous a journey it has been since MS started, and only I will see what a mountain I had to climb. :wink:
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Postby Shannon » Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:04 pm

Hi again - I found the article: <shortened url> While I was looking for it I also found a couple of interesting things about how our genomes are largely bacterial. You can also look up the discovery that gonorrhea has aquired a part of the human genome. Genetics fascinates me more than anything else, and the human genome discovery was a breakthrough that opened up many questions about life.

More evidence we are bacteria sapiens <shortened url>

http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/news/2004/10/65252
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Postby jimmylegs » Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:14 pm

hey there have you tried anti-viral nutrition? such as selenium and zinc?
and re fatigue, ever had a magnesium test?
all three, selenium, zinc, and magnesium (plus others) are low in ms patients.

on the selenium/viral front:

"The purpose of the present work was to determine whether dietary selenium (Se) deficiency could influence the injurious effect of human viruses other than Coxsackie virus B3 (CVB3) on mouse heart. Weanling C3H/HeN mice were fed a Se-deficient or Se-adequate diet for 4 wk and then were inoculated intraperitoneally with one of the following viruses: Coxsackie virus B1 (CVB1), echovirus 9 (EV9), Coxsackie virus A9 (CVA9), or herpes simplex 1 (HSV1). Polio virus 1 (PV1) was employed as a negative control. Prior to inoculation, mean serum Se levels were 430 versus 61 ng/mL in adequate versus deficient mice, respectively. Ten days later, hearts were removed and processed by routine histological procedures. Cardiac lesions were scored according to the number and size of myocarditic foci. Significantly greater heart damage resulting from CVB1 and EV9 was observed in Se-deficient than in Se-adequate mice, and the Se status had no influence on CVA9-induced myocarditis. In contrast, heart damage caused by HSV1 was significantly milder in Se-deficient than in Se-adequate mice. Therefore, it may be concluded that the Se status of the murine host selectively influences the degree of viral-induced myocarditic lesions."

and on the selenium/vascular front:
http://www.medical-hypotheses.com/artic ... 3/abstract
"Considerable epidemiology, primarily of European origin, points to mediocre selenium nutrition as a significant vascular risk factor"

thoughts/comments?
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Postby Shannon » Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:39 pm

I had my DNA sequenced, and it turns out I am 99% European, at least maternally, descending from the Saami U5, my line is, U51b. The Saami are the oldest known Europeans, similar to our native american indians, only Scandinavian! I also had an elevated risk for MS, along with atrial fibrillation, psoriasis, scleroderma and a type of glaucoma. They say that you should try and follow the same diet that your ancestors lived on years ago, so mine would be fish, fish and more fish. I do like sardines in tomato sauce, but definately don't eat it enough. I take a flaxseed oil supplement instead of a fish oil one, but should probably rethink that one. I have a calcium, zinc and magnesium supplement, too, but haven't taken it in awhile. I already take so many darn pills that I have to really pick and choose. I take three Welchol, a baby aspirin, Neurontin, Levoxyl, Cymbalta, and flaxseed in the morning. Then another Neurontin in the afternoon, then another three Welchol and a Neurontin before bed. Plus Copaxone. I just get tired of adding so many supplements to this lineup!
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Postby jimmylegs » Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:00 pm

shannon that is so neat! we have discussed the saami here at TIMS before, sorry didn't know it was behind your back ;)

i agree re fish by the way - i had psoriasis for decades until i fixed up all this nutrition and went to town on extra strength fish oil. i am not sure what the final magic last straw was but all of a sudden it's just ... gone (eeeee!!). and getting serious about fish oil is the only real change i can think of lately.
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Postby Interrupted » Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:27 am

Hi guys, many thanks for replying :D

Shannon: Fascinating, reading through, will take me a wee while x

Jimmy: Yes have done for a long time but it does nothing. I take a LOT of supplements every day including...

Vit D3
Vit C
B Complex
Selenium
Zinc
Magnesium
Super probiotic complex
Olive Leaf Extract
Oil of Oregano
Chlorella
Spirulina
Greens Mix
Bromelain
75mg aspirin
Acai
CoQ10 + Carnitine
NAC
Coral Calcium
Slippery Elm
Flax/Sunflower EFA grains + Oils

erm.. sure there's more. My diet is also pretty clean, mainly fruit/veg/meat/fish/nuts/seeds with as little processed as possible. No wheat or dairy.

When I started eating to tackle viruses, it's the olive leaf/oregano/zinc/mag/selenium that are dosed to tackle it but it's never made a difference. I'm starting to think that if I really can't get anti-virlas, the only way for me to go is trying the ABX regimen... which I know i'll struggle to handle because i'm so weak and semi conscious anyway :roll:
28/07/10, 04/10/10, 16/11/10 - Dopplers x3 Ireland, Poland, Scotland.
12/10/10 - 1st procedure, Poland. Symptoms worsened. No improvement.
Verdict: I urge caution + am taking a back seat watching research ATM.
13/02/12 - Started Wheldon ABX protocol.
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Postby Johnson » Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:23 pm

Interrupted wrote:---redacted---

Flax/Sunflower EFA grains + Oils

erm.. sure there's more. My diet is also pretty clean, mainly fruit/veg/meat/fish/nuts/seeds with as little processed as possible. No wheat or dairy.

When I started eating to tackle viruses, it's the olive leaf/oregano/zinc/mag/selenium that are dosed to tackle it but it's never made a difference. I'm starting to think that if I really can't get anti-virlas, the only way for me to go is trying the ABX regimen... which I know i'll struggle to handle because i'm so weak and semi conscious anyway


I don't have a reference at hand, but sunflower seed/oil is contra-indicated in "MS". Safflower oil, olive oil are better oils to use.

Abx will not touch viruses. Only your own immune system can touch them (or anti-retrovirals). In the pharmacopeia, olmesartan medoxomil (Benicar in the US, UK) has the effect of up-regulating the immune system, as well as cleansing biofilms which block the Vitamin D receptors. There are bacteria and viruses that target those receptors, and taking Vit. D3 until the cows come home will do no good, as it is not absorbed. (www.bacteriality.com is a good resource) The olmesartan has an added benefit of being an angiotensin II receptor blocker. ATII is what causes veins and arteries to constrict, so blocking the receptors has the benefit of relaxing the veins.

I am taking olmesartan (40 mg 4x/day) along with minocycline (100 mg every other day). I have completely eliminated Vit. D3 since Sept. 2010 - after taking 10,000 IU a day for many years. I have had 3 PTAs with initial benefit, that reversed after a month or two.

There is much more to this than venous constrictions and virus/bacteria, in my unlearned opinion. Some bacteria (spirochetes such as borreliosis B) have the capacity to alter DNA, so there is much more to learn before we beat this thing. Somebody (Donnchad?) posted this link to a fascinating article in Discover magazine yesterday.

Be sure to introduce marine oils (krill, anchovie, sardine, etc.). Salmon oil will tend to be more adulterated as salmon are high in the marine food chain.
My name is not really Johnson. MSed up since 1993
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Postby Donnchadh » Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:06 pm

You might want to research Colloidal Silver on the 'net.

I make my own (much less expensive then paying $$$ retail), and have had great luck in treating virus and bacteria infections.

Taken at the first hint of a cold, the symptoms are greatly reduced in severity and the cold cycle finishes sooner. My relatives and friends were extremely skeptical-until they get deathly sick and ask for some "silver water." After being helped, they don't hesitate to ask for more the next time they get sick.

My experiences only; your mileage may vary.

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Postby Interrupted » Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:54 pm

Johnson wrote:Abx will not touch viruses. Only your own immune system can touch them (or anti-retrovirals). In the pharmacopeia, olmesartan medoxomil (Benicar in the US, UK) has the effect of up-regulating the immune system, as well as cleansing biofilms which block the Vitamin D receptors. There are bacteria and viruses that target those receptors, and taking Vit. D3 until the cows come home will do no good, as it is not absorbed. (www.bacteriality.com is a good resource) The olmesartan has an added benefit of being an angiotensin II receptor blocker. ATII is what causes veins and arteries to constrict, so blocking the receptors has the benefit of relaxing the veins.

I am taking olmesartan (40 mg 4x/day) along with minocycline (100 mg every other day). I have completely eliminated Vit. D3 since Sept. 2010 - after taking 10,000 IU a day for many years. I have had 3 PTAs with initial benefit, that reversed after a month or two.


Hi Johnson,

I actually have Benicar in the cupboard, when I started looking at ABX I was heading in the route of that protocol, then I switched to Wheldon. The two are so conflicting on things that it's hard to know which to believe. Heard very bad things about the Benicar one (cannot remember now what) that frightened me when comparing the two, so never started.
It all made sense at the time, now I can't remember the ins and outs.
28/07/10, 04/10/10, 16/11/10 - Dopplers x3 Ireland, Poland, Scotland.
12/10/10 - 1st procedure, Poland. Symptoms worsened. No improvement.
Verdict: I urge caution + am taking a back seat watching research ATM.
13/02/12 - Started Wheldon ABX protocol.
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Postby Interrupted » Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:57 pm

Johnson wrote:There is much more to this than venous constrictions and virus/bacteria, in my unlearned opinion. Some bacteria (spirochetes such as borreliosis B) have the capacity to alter DNA, so there is much more to learn before we beat this thing. Somebody (Donnchad?) posted this link to a fascinating article in Discover magazine yesterday.

Be sure to introduce marine oils (krill, anchovie, sardine, etc.). Salmon oil will tend to be more adulterated as salmon are high in the marine food chain.


Yes, some variants of the XMRV type become part of your DNA and alter it too I read a while ago. Truly concerning stuff. Thanks for the link, I will read tomorrow.

I don't take fish oils, too prone to getting salmonella and tummy bugs to touch raw oils :oops:
28/07/10, 04/10/10, 16/11/10 - Dopplers x3 Ireland, Poland, Scotland.
12/10/10 - 1st procedure, Poland. Symptoms worsened. No improvement.
Verdict: I urge caution + am taking a back seat watching research ATM.
13/02/12 - Started Wheldon ABX protocol.
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Postby Interrupted » Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:58 pm

Donnchadh wrote:You might want to research Colloidal Silver on the 'net.

I make my own (much less expensive then paying $$$ retail), and have had great luck in treating virus and bacteria infections.

Taken at the first hint of a cold, the symptoms are greatly reduced in severity and the cold cycle finishes sooner. My relatives and friends were extremely skeptical-until they get deathly sick and ask for some "silver water." After being helped, they don't hesitate to ask for more the next time they get sick.

My experiences only; your mileage may vary.

Donnchadh


Hi Donnchadh,

I did many years ago and took the cleanest version there was (at great expense), it did nothing, sadly :cry:
28/07/10, 04/10/10, 16/11/10 - Dopplers x3 Ireland, Poland, Scotland.
12/10/10 - 1st procedure, Poland. Symptoms worsened. No improvement.
Verdict: I urge caution + am taking a back seat watching research ATM.
13/02/12 - Started Wheldon ABX protocol.
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Postby jimmylegs » Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:35 pm

can you elaborate on the doses per pill, totals per day, timing and combinations for all those things? (just the nutrients not the herbals i might be able to tease something out).

also have you had bloodwork to get a handle on whether you're absorbing everything properly? your diet looks pretty awesome good on ya :D what kind of fish and how often, iima?
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Postby Interrupted » Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:15 pm

jimmylegs wrote:can you elaborate on the doses per pill, totals per day, timing and combinations for all those things? (just the nutrients not the herbals i might be able to tease something out).

also have you had bloodwork to get a handle on whether you're absorbing everything properly? your diet looks pretty awesome good on ya :D what kind of fish and how often, iima?


Most of what I take is natural source I ship over from the US and not supplements per se, toxic binders and all that. When you say nutrients, can you elaborate on which exactly?
Yes can go through and give you a full run through on what, how much and when tomorrow evening. Thanks for taking an interest, appreciated :D

No, i'd have no idea what bloodwork to get done or from where.

I have fish every 2-3 days. Usually trout, salmon, tuna or bass - I know they're better but I can't stomach 'fishy/saltwater' tasting fish.
My diet is testament to being a devotee of Graze boxes after many years of failing to stick to it on my own previously. Ideally i'd like to have 100% raw diet but I just can't manage it :lol:
28/07/10, 04/10/10, 16/11/10 - Dopplers x3 Ireland, Poland, Scotland.
12/10/10 - 1st procedure, Poland. Symptoms worsened. No improvement.
Verdict: I urge caution + am taking a back seat watching research ATM.
13/02/12 - Started Wheldon ABX protocol.
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Postby MegansMom » Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:07 pm

Think of the physiology involved with CCSVI -

Slowing of brain blood emptying
Lower than normal brain oxygen (fuel for cell mitochondria)
Lower than normal brain glucose( fuel for cell mitochondria)
Higher than normal iron residue
Higher than normal rates of oxidative stress
Higher than normal free radicals
Higher than normal inflammatory processes from damaged or dead tissues
Higher than normal WBCs - some laden with iron(macrophages)


Infectious processes are definitely not normal in this type of environment.
To try to understand how pathogens would live in such an impaired system and how they impact the host is not known. In fact any drugs taken are also slowed through the brain circulatory circuit too.
Bacteria and viruses may find the damaged tissue a nice place to reside, even fleetingly. There are many ways different organisms would react in this abnormal environment.

Many years of study will be needed to understand how CCSVI ( untreated) impacts all other infectious processes

Getting the brain restored to normal blood flow , with normal oxygen and glucose is a must before any known treatment would be effective , because they were designed and tested in normal ( non refluxing) brains.
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My 35 yo daughter is newly dx 8/19/10 (had 12 symptoms)
Dx with Type A CCSVI- 1 IJV & double "candy wrapper" appearance of her Azygos
Venoplasty done Sept 21, 2010
Doing extremely well-
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