This is fascinating!!!!!

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

This is fascinating!!!!!

Postby dania » Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:08 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iugFL21Z ... e=youtu.be

Here is Ginger McQueen's experience with Daflon 500
Update On My Leg Vein Ablation Quest
Today is one week since I first went to see the general surgeon about my leg veins. At that appointment I told him that I had recently underwent CCSVI treatment and a Doppler of my legs that showed venous insufficiency. He had not heard of CCSVI so didn't want to jump into vein ablation treatment before he knew what my whole issues were. He said to come back and see him in a week while he researches CCSVI. Meantime he gave a prescription for daflon 500 CLICK HERE I didn't know what it was as I had never heard of it. That night I took 2 pills at dinnertime. I didn't notice anything different. The next day I took 2 pills with brunch and WHAMO! My legs werent heavy anymore and I could walk faster and had more stamina and didn't need my cane!! I also noted that colours were more vivid and everything in general seemed to be more 3D like. It was BIZARRE!!! A good kind of bizarre, though.

So for the last week I have been taking daflon: two pills with breakfast and two pills with dinner. It is not a cure all but it certainly helped! This morning I went back to see the surgeon. He found out that CCSVI is related to the central nervous system and so the leg vein issue was unrelated. He said he recommends vein ablation treatment for me!!! I told him how the daflon affected me, especially the part about the vision and he said that was good because it might be helping my CCSVI issues and he wants me to stay on the daflon! I am now waiting for a phone call to find out where and when my ablation is. It's been a long, long road to this point! 10 years I have suffered with these leg problems and was told it was just MS. 10 years!!! What a crying shame! The past is the past, however. Now I can see light at the end of the tunnel and it's GLORIOUS!
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Postby cheerleader » Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:14 am

Daflon is diosmin, a flavanoid and antioxidant. It can be purchased w/out prescription in the US and EU. Be aware, it's affect is more for the legs, as it is a vasoconstrictor and helps push blood thru against gravity. I recommend bromelain and quercetin as equally effective flavanoid supplements in the endo health program, which are not vasoconstrictive.
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Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
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Postby dania » Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:23 am

Thanks Cheer. I have tried bromelain and so many other things and nothing has worked for me so far. I will try everything and anything. Being in Canada I guess I need a prescription.If it helps with my purple/blue feet and the swelling in my lower extremities, great. I cannot put shoes on anymore, too swollen.
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Postby cheerleader » Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:39 am

...sounds like Daflon is something to try in your situation, Dania...hope it provides some relief! It's been tested and published in peer-reviewed papers, and proven effective for lower venous insufficiency, swelling and pain. http://ang.sagepub.com/content/56/6_suppl/S25.abstract
best,
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http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
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Postby David1949 » Fri Sep 02, 2011 11:43 am

cheerleader wrote:Daflon is diosmin, a flavanoid and antioxidant. It can be purchased w/out prescription in the US and EU.
cheer


Where can you buy it without an prescription?
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Postby cheerleader » Fri Sep 02, 2011 11:51 am

David1949 wrote:
cheerleader wrote:Daflon is diosmin, a flavanoid and antioxidant. It can be purchased w/out prescription in the US and EU.
cheer


Where can you buy it without an prescription?


online, David...Amazon, vitacost. Or at your local health food/vitamin store
Goes by Diosmin/Hesperidin.
Here's more info:
link

cheer
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
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Postby jimmylegs » Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:46 pm

fyi zinc is really standard issue seen in folks with venous insufficiency and vascular issues in general.

lots of old posts to that effect around here somewhere :)

search for posts by me including all terms, with keywords zinc AND venous AND insufficiency.

example: http://www.thisisms.com/ftopicp-140188.html#140188

hth!
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Postby 1eye » Fri Sep 02, 2011 2:27 pm

from http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11510597

Angiology. 2001 Aug;52 Suppl 1:S49-56.
Clinical benefits of Daflon 500 mg in the most severe stages of chronic venous insufficiency.
Ramelet AA.
Source

aaramelet@hin.ch
Abstract

Chronic venous insufficiency (CVI) affects a large number of people in Western countries, and is responsible for considerable inconvenience, discomfort, suffering, and costs. Micronized purified flavonoid fraction (MPFF, 450 mg diosmin plus 50 mg hesperidin-Daflon 500 mg) is a potent venotropic drug used in the treatment of venous insufficiency. Pharmacological and clinical studies demonstrated the comprehensive mode of action of Daflon 500 mg: it increases venous tone, it improves lymph drainage, and it protects the microcirculation. Clinical international, prospective, multicenter, randomized, controlled studies versus placebo studies documenting the effects of Daflon 500 mg in CVI at advanced stages with edema, skin changes, and venous leg ulcer are reviewed. In edema, one of the most frequent complaints of patients, Daflon 500 mg brings about a significant reduction in leg circumference, thanks to its capacity to inhibit inflammatory reactions and to decrease capillary hyperpermeability. The rationale for the use of Daflon 500 mg for treatment of skin disorders and venous leg ulcer is its action on the microcirculation-damaging processes. Regarding skin changes, Daflon 500 mg has been shown to improve venous trophic disorders, like gravitational (stasis) dermatitis, and dermatofibrosclerosis. In venous leg ulcer, Daflon 500 mg's clinical efficacy has been demonstrated in addition to standard treatment or versus standard treatment alone. Daflon 500 mg, thanks to its comprehensive mode of action on the veins, lymphatics, and microcirculation, is the method of choice not only in the early stages of CVI treatment, but also in the severe stages of this condition, in combination with compression treatment, sclerotherapy, and surgery if appropriate.

PMID:
11510597
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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Postby HappyPoet » Fri Sep 02, 2011 2:50 pm

Found this paper when researching the annulus after my annulus was "popped." This small, limited rodent study is noteworthy for its finding regarding Daflon decreasing "valvular remodeling," specifically of the annulus. No date is provided:

www.europeanvenousforum.org/files/7th_m ... 203;15.pdf

UCSD School of Medicine wrote:VENOUS HYPERTENSION INDUCED VENOUS INSUFFICIENCY AMELIORATED BY DAFLON® 500MG Luigi Pascarella, M.D.*, Dzenan Lulic B.S.***, Tomas Alsaigh* , Jeffrey Lee *, Vevek Kapur*, Geert Schmid-Schonbein, Ph.D.,* John Bergan, M.D. F.A.C.S *** From the Departments of Bioengineering and Surgery of the UCSD School of Medicine, San Diego, California *Department of Bioengineering, **Department of Surgery ***UCSD School of Medicine

Introduction: Venous reflux is caused by inflammation induced valve re-modeling. This presents a target for pharmacologic therapy.

Objectives: The purpose of this study was to assess by duplex Doppler ultrasound the pharmacologic amelioration of venous insufficiency, valvular reflux and limb edema following induction of venous hypertension by an arteriovenous (a-v) fistula in the Wistar rat.

Methods: The study was designed with 6 groups of animals to be sacrificed at day 1 (Group 1; n= eight) and (Group 2 with treatment , n=eight), at 7 days (Group 3; n=eight) (Group 4 with treatment, n=eight) and at 21 days (Group 5; n=eight) (Group 6 with treatment , n=eight) following the surgery. Twenty four animals in three groups received femoral a-v fistulas and twenty four received 100 mg/kg/day Daflon® 500 mg. Treatment has been administered by gavage 1 day before surgery and during all the study. A group of 4 sham- operated animals has been used as controls.

A Duplex Ultrasound (ATL- Philips HDI 5000 and7-15 MHz transducer Philips Medical Systems, Bothell, WA) was performed for repetitive examinations of the femoral vein, the saphenofemoral junction (SFJ), the saphenous vein and direction of venous flow.

At the end of each time-point the animals were euthanized. Blood samples were drawn to test the protease activity (Enzcheck protease assay, Molecular Probes, Invitrogen, Carlsbad, Ca) The sapheno femoral junctions of the pressurized limb were harvested to compare with the contralateral SFJ. The fresh specimens were frozen in liquid nitrogen and stored at –70°C. Longitudinal sections (7 microns) were cut across the SaphenoFemoral Junction (SFJ) and the valve leaflets with a cryostat at - 23°C, and air dried for 30 minutes.

Tissue sections were studied by a Gomori Trichrome Technique (Richard Allan Scientific Kalamazoo, MI) while leukocyte infiltration (Granulocyte-CD 52, Serotec, Raleigh, NC, Macrophage CD68, Serotec, Raleigh, NC, B Lymphocytes CD45RA, Caltag Burlingame, CA and T Lymphocytes (CD3, Caltag, Burlingame, CA) was investigated by immunofluorescence.

Results: At 21 days, six of eight untreated animals showed ectatic veins in the lower abdomen and in the medial aspect of the operated limb. An increase in thigh and leg circumference due to edema began at 14 days and progressed until sacrifice in untreated animals while treated animals showed significantly less edema. The untreated animals slept with legs elevated. The treated animals did not.

Sixteen limbs were scanned with duplex ultrasound. In a-v fistula limbs the subterminal valve distal to the SFJ showed progressive increase in annulus diameter (p<0.05) and reflux flow began at 7 days. Daflon® 500 mg treatment reduced this reflux markedly. Reverse blood flow velocity distal to the SFJ was found to be progressively augmented in a manner that resembled human saphenofemoral reflux. This reflux flow was significantly decreased in treated animals (p<0.05). Blood flow velocities in the femoral vein, distal to the a-v fistula, showed a progressive increase in reflux throughout all time points and this was reduced by Daflon® 500 mg treatment (p<0.05).

At 21-days, there was a progressive increase in granulocyte and macrophage infiltration in the junction in controls. The macrophage infiltration was significantly reduced in Daflon® 500 mg treated animals (p<0.05), but no significant increase in B and T lymphocyte infiltration in the junction vein wall compared to controls. There was an increase in plasma protease activity in controls that was markedly reduced in treated animals (p<0.05).

Conclusions: Venous hypertension produced by an arteriovenous fistula is associated with an increase in plasma serine proteases but decreased in Daflon® 500 mg treated animals. Sapheno-femoral granulocyte and macrophage infiltration, venous annulus remodeling, and saphenous vein reflux are also significantly decreased under Daflon® 500 mg treatment.

So, in this study, Daflon 500 decreased the following:
Edema
Proteases
Macrophage and granulocyte infiltration
Annulus remodeling
Venous reflux

According to the study, inflammation caused an increase in the size of the annulus which then led to reflux. If the Introduction is true that, "Venous reflux is caused by inflammation induced valve re-modeling," this would help explain why our valves thicken and stiffen. I wonder if T- and B-cells would have infiltrated if the study had lasted longer.
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Postby David1949 » Fri Sep 02, 2011 3:12 pm

According to the video in Dania's post, in people with Chronic venous insufficiency the leukocytes adhere to the capillary endothelium wall. Then the leukocytes release toxins which damage the endothelium and lead to an inflammatory reaction. Sounds like MS. Daflon reduces the adhesion of leukocytes to capillary walls and also protects venous valves.

Good find Dania!
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Re: This is facinating!!!!!

Postby David1949 » Fri Sep 02, 2011 3:16 pm

dania wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iugFL21Z-xg&feature=youtu.be

..."The next day I took 2 pills with brunch and WHAMO! My legs werent heavy anymore and I could walk faster and had more stamina and didn't need my cane!! I also noted that colours were more vivid and everything in general seemed to be more 3D like."...


This sounds like the results for some folks who have been recently liberated.
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Postby 1eye » Fri Sep 02, 2011 3:23 pm

This is amazing. Leukocytes like T cells and B cell and macrophages? My understanding of Tysabri is it works by making the BBB less permeable, by making it difficult for leukocytes to adhere to blood vessel walls. Combined with the annulus effect and the reduction of reflux, this sounds like herbal angioplasty!
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Postby Rosegirl » Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:53 pm

So is it safe to start taking Daflon without checking with a doctor first, especially about side effects and/or drug interactions?
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Postby HappyPoet » Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:21 pm

1eye wrote:... this sounds like herbal angioplasty!

Love it! :)

Since Daflon 500 is a vasoconstrictor, does anyone know of any herbal vasodilator supplement(s)? How about big pharma vasodilator medications?
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Postby HappyPoet » Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:38 pm

Rosegirl wrote:So is it safe to start taking Daflon without checking with a doctor first, especially about side effects and/or drug interactions?

Rosegirl, great questions. I plan to call my doctor on Tuesday to ask about Daflon 500, and I'll post his answers here, though some answers might be specific to me. In the mean time, I'll look on the Internet to see what information I can find about Daflon 500.

cheer, do you know if your recommended supplements, bromelain and quercetin, decrease valvular remodeling and reflux? Thank you!

dania, wonderful find. All your posts are very much appreciated. Thank you!
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