CCSVI, cause or symptom?

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Re: CCSVI, cause or symptom?

Postby blossom » Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:25 pm

civickiller, yes, in my thoughts too the cart has been put before the horse. not that ccsvi has no merit. because it does. but it is more invasive and "some not all" who are in one heck of a mess with no where to go. when i read trauma could cause ccsvi i ran with it too. i did not realize what all could go wrong-i know now the info. was here but for whatever reasons i didn't pay enough attention.

but on the upside here is where dr. flanagan came on board. now dr. amir. both, offering options that are not invasive that could for some be the answer and both as far as i'm concerned have seen positive results for more yrs. than credit is being given. even though what they offer isn't specifically called ccsvi liberation doesn't mean it does not help blood flow and csf flow.

first get anything out of whack put on track and see what happens-then the ccsvi if someone chooses or there is still the need. dr. sclafani is one of the best and he has been here for us.
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Re: CCSVI, cause or symptom?

Postby Amir » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:32 am

civickiller wrote:
Cece wrote:If the benefits of jaw or atlas aligning cannot be proven, then it must remain an alternative option, and we are indeed a patient population that is willing to try all reasonable options.

Upright mri part 1
upright mri part 2 ... 929674.DTL
im thinking of the upright mri post saying 7 out of 8 had a previous trauma and all had low csf flow with the csf being blocked in the upper sine, i think they said upper spine.

does ccsvi restore blocked csf flow ?

thats why i strongly urge every single person, not just ms, to get checked out by a ucc dr to see if they could benefit from ucc.

alot of ms'ers say theyll do anything to fix their ms but i have yet to see it as most of those go straight to ccsvi without giving ucc a seconds thought but hey theyll do anything to fix their ms, right. :roll:

Excellent and very relevant post Civickiller. Congratulations for staying on course.

The Fonar UPRIGHT MR scanner looked at patients who had suffered neck trauma which appears to impede CSF flow giving rise to an Increased Intracranial Pressure (ICP) This increased ICP is clearly seen to be causing increased ventricular pressure giving rise to a leakage of CSF into the brain parenchyma and the typical MS plaques in the periventricular tissues.

CCSVI treatment often goes a long way in reducing the ICP and hence the resolution of many symptoms.

The images presented in the article clearly show obstructions to CSF flow in the regions where disc herniation in the neck has taken place. The disc aberrations are consequential upon injury to the neck from various accidents.

Experience shows that not every patient who has MS has suffered a violent knock on their heads and necks.

Neck pain and cervical rotations are present in literally every patient presenting with a multitude of ailments not just MS.

Most of these cervical rotations and consequent pain are secondary to the asymmetry of the Cranio Dental Complex due to environmental and iatrogenic reasons.

Atlas correction alone, although very helpful if done effectively, may not resolve all the issues. The rest of the vertebrae also need correction which is only possible by wearing appropriate dental appliances - not high velocity adjustments which must never be carried out to correct other "subluxations" because these are SECONDARY to what is going on with the jaws.

Another important issue to note is that the brain lesions are more than likely not the cause of the infirmity that one sees in MS patients.

Some symptoms can be attributed to ICP while a lot of other symptoms are clearly similar to the cascade of symptoms which also develop in other illnesses like Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS).

These symptoms are caused by skeletal asymmetry which remains uncorrected in most patients. Many CFS patients are later categorized into MS when some brain lesions become apparent.

The loss of mobility is more than likely related to the chronic damage to the nerves, emanating from the spine, by vertebral rotations.
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Re: CCSVI, cause or symptom?

Postby tuftyone » Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:23 am

The articles above seem to back up your hypothosis Amir.

For the benefit of new readers of this thread (and me!) It may be good to summarise the points made so far in simple terms.

Cranial and skeletal asymmetry (however caused) could affect the neck vertebrae (and other things) and restrict cerebrospinal fluid flow and create lesions in the brain. (not by auto immune response).

Correcting the jaw and atlas would promote symmetry, and liberating CCSVI would promote blood flow.

The brain is capable of re-routing signals from the lesion-affected parts to other areas within the brain where possible so immobiltiy is not a primarily cause of these lesions.

Let me know if I've missed something!
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Re: CCSVI, cause or symptom?

Postby CureOrBust » Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:07 am

Amir wrote:
civickiller wrote:The loss of mobility is more than likely related to the chronic damage to the nerves, emanating from the spine, by vertebral rotations.
Are these nerves inside or outside the CNS?
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Re: CCSVI, cause or symptom?

Postby Amir » Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:41 pm

Amir wrote:The loss of mobility is more than likely related to the chronic damage to the nerves, emanating from the spine, by vertebral rotations.
CureOrBust wrote:Are these nerves inside or outside the CNS?

Good question.
Sorry I have been too busy lately and hence the delay in answering. I think the more I read the more I feel that the answers are not as absolute as I might have given the impression.

CCSVI interventions appear to have the immediate effect of decreasing Intra Cranial Pressure (ICP) from the veins and in turn from Cerebro Spinal Fluid (CSF) which often brings about an immediate relief of symptoms of incapacity in some patients. This reaction must be more central and also demonstrates that there is probably no permanent damage as hypothesised by conventional wisdom.

This instantaneous relief appears not to take place in many others and here my statement that the damage is of a chronic nature occuring at the vertebral level could hold true.

In others it must be a combination of both.

Therefore attending to the vascular problem, cervical vertebral problems and other cranio-dental and body asymmetries must be accomplished.

Symmetry also improves the breathing capacity which improves body oxygenation correcting the cerebral ischaemia. Such ischaemia is the crux of the issues of MS as reiterated by many (especialy Cece) in these threads. The improved breathing also improves CSF flow which again is paramount for the maintenance of neurological health.
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Re: CCSVI, cause or symptom?

Postby Amir » Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:56 am

I was just reading this today:

This may not come as news to many but I was struck by the sentence:

"however, almost half (44%) of patients with any demyelinating lesions on MRI at presentation [with Optic Neuritis] will not have developed MS ten years later."

This probably shows that the connection between lesions and MS symptoms is rather tenuous and the disabilities have other connotations as substantiated by the results achieved through CCSVI and other treatments.
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Re: CCSVI, cause or symptom?

Postby Cece » Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:11 pm
from Dr. Williams at ISNVD
Cranial Instability and CCSVI (David Williams, CANADA)

CCSVI is a complex condition that has a clear association with several clinical illnesses. It has been shown
repeatedly that, by itself, CCSVI is not the primary cause of these illnesses but appears to be present in
association with other, as yet, unknown factors. CCSVI shares clinical features with the Central Venous
Stenosis which is a complication of hemodialysis. The relationship of altered venous pressure and cellular
responses on the endothelial wall are well documented. The discovery of a mechanism by which intracranial
pressure and exit venous pressure may be subject to paroxismal changes during sleep cycles may contribute
one such factor worthy of closer examination. Jaw clenching in the form of nocturnal bruxism occurs during the
REM phase of sleep. The forces involved can exceed conscious clenching forces by several times. The muscle
groups that are activated in this scenario are closely associated with cranial structures and may have a
profound impact on venous pressure directly and indirectly. The discovery of sutural instability during jaw
clenching in a group of multiple sclerosis patients could lead to fluid trauma to the contents of the skull and
the endothelium of the extracranial venous system. This mechanical trauma could be expected to precipitate
microbleeds, accumulation of iron, axonal death, blood brain barrier disruption, amyloid accumulations
and other processes that are found in post traumatic brain injury. If this phenomenon is present prior to the
deterioration of the venous system as found in CCSVI, it may be a significant factor in the treatment of
neurological illness and may enhance the outcome of venous angioplasy.
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Re: CCSVI, cause or symptom?

Postby icecube2 » Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:47 pm


If you scroll down to related topics. I asked as Fee001 the exact same question back in August 2011

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Re: CCSVI, cause or symptom?

Postby EJC » Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:02 pm

The post above by Cece had passed me by a few weeks back.

I couldn't agree more with Dr Williams.

A number of the patients now seeing Amir for jaw Misalingment have had CCSVI treatment at various centres. We're all reporting the varying degrees of the same.

Initial good results (in varying degrees) followed by a steady regression of those improvements over the following 6-9 months.

I'm starting to think that CCSVI is like "lancing a boil" in that it provides instant relief in cranial pressure and CSF flow that has been impeded over a long period of time. The improvements found are a relief from the pressure that then gradually builds back up over the next 6-9 months (or longer in some).

The cause of the build up of pressure is not being addressed. Which explains the regression of many patients.

Emma's treatment with Amir is a hypothesis that the cranial pressure and poor venus and CSF flow is caused by skeletel misalignment and poor breathing.
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