New Insights for CCSVI and MS causation, Dr Paul Thibault

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

New Insights for CCSVI and MS causation, Dr Paul Thibault

Postby NZer1 » Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:12 am

Dr Paul Thibault has a Catalyst TV program screening tonight (23 rd August 2012) in Australia.
http://www.abc.net.au/tv/guide/abc1/201 ... 200123.htm
Quote;
"MS Cure

It's widely accepted that Multiple Sclerosis (MS) is an autoimmune disease. The cause of MS is unknown and there is no cure. But some maverick doctors contend that MS is triggered by an infection which can be treated. It's believed that a common bacterium, Chlamydia pneumoniae can infect blood vessels in the brain and spinal cord and ultimately lead to nerve damage. Maryanne Demasi meets the doctors who are at odds with neurologists in proposing that an early diagnosis of MS could provide a cure with something as simple as antibiotics."
==============================================================

I have made an appointment for a Doppler Ultrasound check and a sit down with Paul on Wednesday 29th August in Newcastle Australia, after months of discussions about his findings and the people he has treated. I personally have a positive test results for CPn using the NAC self test which Paul has said " Nigel, you almost certainly have a chronic active Cpn infection and this may be the cause of the MS and CCSVI. "

Quote from Paul,
" The CPn intracellular bacteria affects both the lining of the veins and from there spreas to the surrounding nervous tissue. This is the reason why the MS lesions are predominantly around the veins as shown by a number of pathologists explaining the peculiar distribution of MS lesions. Whilst Schelling atributes this to mechanical effects of "back-jets", I favour an infective causation spreading along the veins to involve the neural tissue, as I believe epidemiological evidence favours this pathogenic mechanism. Schelling rightly criticizied the concept of infection, but he assumed that infection would spread from the arterial side of the circulation which it does in general with viral (eg EB virus) infections. But gram -ve intracelluar pathogens such as Cpn (and spirochaetes to a lesser extent) can spread by the lymphatic system and veins. I also check for Chlamydophila trachomatis as I suspect this may be involved in a smaller subset.
Cpn is widespread throughout society as a common respiratory infection and most people will come into contact with it at some time. Why only a very small proportion develop MS is unknown, but may be related to Vitamin D levels at the time of initial infection and other unknown factors. Kurtzke predicted this with his extensive epidemiological studies and he favoured the idea that it waas mainly one infective agent, rather than a larger number.
The reliability of the NAC test is yet to be determined and I am accepting David Wheldon's opinion on this. It would certainly make an interesting study. The article I would recommend you to read is:
Kurtzke JF. Epidemiologic evidence for multiple sclerosis
as an infection. Clin Microbiol Rev 1993;6:382–427"
And,
" I have recently seen a number patients have good results with the CAP with slow but progressive IMPROVEMENT in their symptoms, and today one younger patient showed significant improvement with almost normalisation of the blood flows after 5 months without having had any venoplasty. At present I am referring about 50% of pwMS on for venoplasty based on the Doppler scan (which in a recent case was more accurate than CT venography) and whether the patients wishes to proceed that way."
And,
"You don't need to go to your GP to do the NAC test. It is unlikely that he/shw will know anything about it. It is a clinical test that you do yourself see : http://www.davidwheldon.co.uk/NAC.html . You just need to get a bottle of N-acetyl cysteine (NAC) and take 2 capsules twice daily for 3 days. If you develop respiratory symptoms or worsening of your MS symptoms then you probably have an active CPn infection going on. Getting the NAC can be difficult as not all pharmacies or health Food shops have them but they can be obtained over the internet from companies such as Evidencia."
And,
"I think the reason why IVUS has not taken off in Aus/NZ is realted to lack of interest by the interventional radiologists in ultrasound in general. CCSVI is probably one of the few areas where it has much application. It was initially introduced into general phlebology about 20 years ago by Pauline Raymond-Martimbeau, but never took off."
And,
"I (or my vascular sonographer in fact) do a slightly different protocol to Zamboni which I believe is more objective and correlates very well with subsequent MRVs and venography. We don't specifically measure vein diameters as these are so variable from moment to moment, instead we concentrate on blood volume flows which incorporates vein diameter within the calculation anyway. But we also measure the BVFs from the 3 segments of the IJV (Zamboni doesn't record any BVFs) as well as the vertebral veins, and we record the global cerebral arterial volume flow (as described by Doepp et al) which is very useful to monitor progress post venoplasty. With this method I believe we get better quantification to measure progress over time. I am currently preparing an article on this method which will include results of a pilot study before and after venoplasty."

The quotes above are all with Paul's permission and are excerpts from pm discussions on Face Book over many months.
Paul's Face Book link BTW is,
https://www.facebook.com/paul.thibault.37
My CCSVI in NZ Face book link is,
https://www.facebook.com/pages/CCSVI-in ... 1636357984

Regards all,
Hope you are well,
Nigel
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Re: New Insights for CCSVI and MS causation, Dr Paul Thibaul

Postby Nasti » Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:12 pm

Interesting... Not that I know much about this (or anything) :), but haven't such stories emerged with many other things (e.g. nystatyn for candida) etc.?
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Re: New Insights for CCSVI and MS causation, Dr Paul Thibaul

Postby blossom » Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:34 pm

hi dr. flanagan, even though i have these questions it is not to take away from this thread. i ask you "as i feel nigel does" because you not only are the most knowledgable in this field but you also have a broadbase unique knowledge of the body and the working of it. touching on many things such as chinese med. etc. you put the words correctly where as i have said my "yeng and my yang" is outta whack concerning certain things. "hillbilly chinese translation" of the chinese vocabulary.

with the chlamydia pneumoniae - do you think since all who are exposed to it some have real problems some don't-the same with mercury fillings or even the fact that all who have some really bad spinal issues still do not develop what they call ms. but say with some who are carrying this cp but they are cranking along through life "like i was" very healthy my immune system taking care of business them boom you have a trauma or an ongoing trauma situation that causes your blood flow and csf flow to be sluggish and the correct flow which normally takes care of these invaiders all of a sudden they can get a grip and start trouble. and maybe the people who had prev. structual problems but until exposed to this started getting symptoms because the flow wasn't great to begin with. ---kinda as the slow creek getting slow or low and the slime pond scum type thing can creep in or take hold.

i recall telling the first neuro. what is ms he said they thought it was a virus-and then i told him then if a trauma didn't cause these symptoms then i don't have this thing you call ms and if a virus is involved then it was sleeping a long time and the trauma woke it up.

Quote dr. f. I have a different theory. I think that most cases of MS are due to trauma and other anatomical issues. As I have mentioned many times, however, about a third of the cases I have consulted with are migraine variants related to autoimmune-inflammatory conditions. The cause of the autoimmune-inflammatory reactions differ. I have a case now that is related to a former episode of EBV. The EBV, however, was brought on by her particular physiology, her high energy stressful lifestyle and diet loaded with sugar. The combination weakened her immune system and provoked inflammation. I have also treated cases of gluten enteropathy and lactose intolerance etc.. Colon problems, weak stomach acid and digestive enzymes are common causes. Viruses, bacteria and other pathogens don't always cause the problem. They show up because there is a problem and the system is out of balance and weak.
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Re: New Insights for CCSVI and MS causation, Dr Paul Thibaul

Postby dania » Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:14 pm

Blossom I was thinking along those same lines. Perhaps trauma can be 100% the problem and perhaps some have both, Chlamydia pneumoniae and Atlas misalignment? Just to tested and see if it is also something I have...
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Re: New Insights for CCSVI and MS causation, Dr Paul Thibaul

Postby orion98665 » Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:52 pm

Interesting reads on Chlamydia pneumoniae infection.


Recently, the most convincing data ever presented relating infection
with a specific organism to multiple sclerosis has been reported
from the Department of Neurology and Pathology, Vanderbilt School
of Medicine, Nashville, Tennessee. Dr. Subramaniam Sriram and coworkers,
publishing their results in the Annals of Neurology, have demonstrated the presence of a specific type of bacteria in 100% of the 37 multiple sclerosis patients they studied.


http://www.davidwheldon.co.uk/ms-treatment1.html

http://www.msrc.co.uk/index.cfm/fuseact ... pageid/741

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10401775




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Re: New Insights for CCSVI and MS causation, Dr Paul Thibaul

Postby NZer1 » Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:46 pm

I posted this elsewhere and will put it out here as well for thoughts please.

***CPn transported by reflux that is seen in CCSVI, possible?***

It is possible that it takes the vein reflux found NOW in so many diseases to send the Bacteria such as CPn across the BBB and allow the bacteria to cause the symptoms that are common across so many diseases ,* now some IR's are calling them CCSVI Symptoms*.
Maybe they are CPn symptoms enabled by reflux from CCSVI to hydraulic the diseased cells into and across the BBB, without detection or most importantly a way to test for the Disease once in has entered the Brain and Cord!

The other way of breaching the BBB is from Trauma or injury, in my small mind the pathway has been understood the effect of the breach hasn't.
Identifying the symptoms and understanding how they are caused at a cellular level is the next horizon?

Many diseases have similar symptoms (Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, Chiari, IBS, Chrons, etc, etc), and no one (Neuros) have gone looking at how they happen at cellular level and tracked what really causes them.
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Re: New Insights for CCSVI and MS causation, Dr Paul Thibaul

Postby blossom » Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:31 pm

it was pointed out to me "thank you poet" that i had put a post meant for dr. flanagan here. but, think i'll leave it here too because "nigel" bringing this here about cp is getting the juices flowing and we need that. this article i found doesn't really answer the questions but on the other hand at least we have an idea where the little bastard bacteria came from.

Animals Linked to Human Chlamydia Pneumoniae
ScienceDaily (Feb. 22, 2010) — Animals have been found to have infected humans sometime in the past with the common respiratory disease Chlamydia pneumoniae, according to Queensland University of Technology infectious disease expert Professor Peter Timms.

Unlike the sexually-transmitted form of chlamydia, Chlamydia pneumoniae is a major bacterial germ that causes widespread respiratory disease in humans.

The discovery was made by an international team of scientists from QUT's Institute of Health and Biomedical Innovation and the Institute for Genome Sciences (IGS) at the University of Maryland School of Medicine, who used koalas to prove the link between Chlamydia pneumoniae in animals and humans.

"We were able to sequence the genome (an organism's hereditary information) of Chlamydia pneumoniae obtained from an Australian koala and found evidence that human Chlamydia pneumoniae was originally derived from an animal source," Professor Timms said.

"Infections acquired from wildlife, known as zoonotic infections, are one of the most significant growing threats to global human health.

"We've already seen the impact of zoonotic infections with the H1N1 influenza pandemic which spread worldwide and originated from swines/pigs."

Professor Timms said the research revealed evidence that humans were originally infected zoonotically by animal isolates of Chlamydia pneumoniae which have adapted to humans primarily through the processes of gene decay.

He said Chlamydia pneumoniae was originally an animal pathogen that crossed the species barrier to humans and had adapted to the point where it could now be transmitted between humans.

"What we think now is that Chlamydia pneumoniae originated from amphibians such as frogs," he said.

Professor Timms said it was important to understand the origins of zoonotic infections to know the risk animal infections have to humans.

"It means we can look for solutions such as developing improved diagnostic tests, ensuring people take appropriate precautions to prevent the disease spreading and also develop vaccines," he said.

Assistant Professor Garry Myers from the Institute for Genome Sciences said the findings indicated that the high disease burden of Chlamydia pneumoniae in humans may represent a major public health corollary of zoonotic infections.

The findings from the study have been published in the international Journal of Bacteriology
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Re: New Insights for CCSVI and MS causation, Dr Paul Thibaul

Postby milesap » Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:12 pm

The insite is not new http://www.msrc.co.uk/index.cfm/fuseact ... pageid/741 this was known four years ago but ignored
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Re: New Insights for CCSVI and MS causation, Dr Paul Thibaul

Postby blossom » Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:23 pm

nigel, maybe this will explain some of the bbb and some diseases---you'll have to google it a long read but pretty i thought worth it. maybe the nose knows.



Possible MS Culprit Virus Steals in Through the Nose

By Elizabeth Norton Lasley
November 01, 2011
Of all the senses, perhaps none is more evocative than the sense of smell. The merest whiff of a familiar scent can bring back the past and rouse sleeping emotions. That’s because a relay of neurons connects the nose directly to the brain. But unfortunately, viruses also travel this bridge: for example, the viruses that cause rabies, West Nile disease, and some influenzas infect the brain through the olfactory pathway. New research shows that a lesser-known virus called human herpesvirus-6 (HHV-6) may take the same route to play a role in multiple sclerosis (MS). The finding may point the way toward new treatments and may help reveal how MS and other neurological diseases develop
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Re: New Insights for CCSVI and MS causation, Dr Paul Thibaul

Postby NZer1 » Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:50 am

Thank you so much Blossom, you have helped heaps.

The thing that I find I keep coming back to is the way some people who have PTA have INSTANT improvements, and some have the same regions angio-ed and they have not change.

The in my mind says that the Lesions on MRI are not the cause of some symptoms!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The cause of symptoms changing rapidly is the KEY to what is happening that will also help understand why these diseases are linked by symptoms and not by MRI findings!

Regards,
Nigel

Edit;
HYDRAULIC-ING the Capillary Beds because of reverse flows caused by Alignment issues or Vascular Malformations and other Vascular issues is going to transport Bacterial diseases like CPn into the brain where it creates havoc!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Find the cause and the 'reason for the changeability' of the Symptoms that are involved "Priceless"!
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Re: New Insights for CCSVI and MS causation, Dr Paul Thibaul

Postby NZer1 » Fri Aug 24, 2012 2:31 am

The Pharmacuticle Industry is looking at extending the use of Interferon by adding Antibiotics? Hello!

Antibiotics May Be Beneficial For Multiple Sclerosis
A preliminary study suggests that combining an interferon, a medication currently used to treat multiple sclerosis, with an antibiotic may slow the progress of the disease, according to a new study.

"Multiple Sclerosis (MS) is an immune-mediated disorder that affects genetically susceptible individuals after exposure to certain, as yet unidentified environmental antigens, or disease-causing agents," the authors write as background information in the article. The development of MS involves inflammation that destroys parts of the brain along with progressive degeneration of brain tissue.

Alireza Minagar, M.D., of Louisiana State University Health Sciences Center, Shreveport, and colleagues conducted a study involving 15 patients (average age 44.5) with relapsing-remitting MS who had been taking interferon for at least six months and were experiencing symptoms and developing new brain lesions. For four months, participants took 100 milligrams daily of the antibiotic doxycycline in addition to continuing interferon therapy. They underwent monthly neurological examinations—MRI to detect brain lesions and blood work to monitor safety.

After four months, 60 percent of the patients had more than a one-fourth reduction in the number of lesions from the beginning of the study. The patients also had reduced average scores on a scale designed to assess disability levels.

Only one patient relapsed; adverse effects were mild and included only known effects of the two drugs individually rather than new effects associated with combining the medications.

Antibiotics in the tetracycline family, including doxycycline, may be effective against MS and other inflammatory diseases by inhibiting the action of enzymes that destroy certain nervous system cells, protecting the brain and increasing the effectiveness of the immune system, the authors note.

"There is growing interest in combination therapy in patients with MS to stabilize the clinical course, reduce the rate of clinical relapses and decelerate the progressive course of the underlying pathologic mechanism," they write. "Overall, data from this cohort suggest that the treatment combination of oral doxycycline and interferon beta-1a may be safe and effective in some patients with MS; however, further controlled clinical trials are warranted to demonstrate safety and efficacy in a larger patient population."

As we have seen the benefits of Doxycycline and other antibiotics in patients with MS, I am pleased that academic neurologists are catching up with this holistic therapy. In addition, old research showed that a special NATURAL Bioidentical estrogen called estriol is very helpful in treating MS and has been used by holistic physicians for over a decade (the dose is 8 mg/day long term. If stopped and restarted the benefits may not recur). A recent study has found the same effect in animals and claimed it to be the first evidence of benefit of estriol in MS despite earlier research and its long history of use in holistic medicine. What awaits to be seen is if the researchers will study this inexpensive and fairly safe natural hormone, or look for a patentable and likely dangerous synthetic that they can charge outrageous amounts for. Time will tell. Meanwhile though, your holistic physician can offer these treatments now!

As an aside, I would not use antibiotics in ALS (Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis). If evidence of HHV 6 viral infection is seen in either ALS or MS however, I would consider a 6 month course of the antiviral Valcyte.

http://www.endfatigue.com/articles/Arti ... or_ms.html
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Re: New Insights for CCSVI and MS causation, Dr Paul Thibaul

Postby MarkW » Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:00 am

MS is a multifactorial disease and Chlamydia pneumoniae (CPn) is an environmental factor in some pwMS but probably not a causal factor. The website "www.CPn Help.org" is the best place to find information.
MarkW
Mark Walker - Oxfordshire, England. Registered Pharmacist (UK). 10 years of study around MS.
Mark's CCSVI Report 7-Mar-11:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/8359854/MS-experts-in-Britain-have-to-open-their-minds.html
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Re: New Insights for CCSVI and MS causation, Dr Paul Thibaul

Postby PointsNorth » Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:08 am

I did try tetracycline (minocycl) early in my MS career to no avail. I must've heard about it here at TiMS.
Albany 2010. Brooklyn 2011
Hurry up and wait.
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Re: New Insights for CCSVI and MS causation, Dr Paul Thibaul

Postby blossom » Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:30 am

pointsnorth, it sounds like it is a cocktail of antibiots. there is a poster here on tims that did it and doing well. look in general discussion.
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Re: New Insights for CCSVI and MS causation, Dr Paul Thibaul

Postby hopeforA » Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:19 pm

The link b/w stenosis and infections is interesting but not surprising. I have been looking and learning about other chronic conditions where ccsvi appears to be present and also where the infectious link has been established for some time. I was recently reading that autism and lyme patients tend to have worse ccsvi scores than ms ones. They also seem to have more sophisticated approaches in dealing with that.

Here's an interesting link to a Lyme conference where they talk about ccsvi among other things.
http://betterhealthguy.com/joomla/blog/ ... eyond-lyme
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