A chronic infective cerebrospinal venulitis?

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

A chronic infective cerebrospinal venulitis?

Postby dania » Thu Jul 04, 2013 5:05 am

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Re: A chronic infective cerebrospinal venulitis?

Postby jimmylegs » Thu Jul 04, 2013 5:51 am

excerpt from the above "If MS does result from a chronic infective venulitis rather than a syndrome involving congenital truncular venous malformations, then additional therapies to the currently used angioplasties will be required to optimize results."

some thoughts:

Interactions between Chlamydia pneumoniae and trace elements (2003)
"An association between Chlamydia pneumoniae and atherosclerotic cardiovascular diseases has been suggested. However, other factors may interact in the pathogenesis of valve sclerosis. ... Patients showed 10- to 70-fold increases of these trace elements in valves and an increased copper/zinc ratio in serum. .. all patients had a disturbed trace element balance in valves and serum suggestive of active immune process and infection. The pattern of trace element changes was essentially similar regardless of positive makers of C. pneumoniae, suggesting a similar etiopathogenesis in both subgroups. The 20-fold increase in iron, essential for C. pneumoniae growth, in sclerotic valves suggests a new possible link to this infection in aortic sclerosis."

if anyone has full text access to the above, i would really be interested in raw data.. very interested to see serum ferritin, serum zinc and serum copper.

working on the iron excess:

Influence of iron restriction on Chlamydia pneumoniae and C. trachomatis
"Growth of C. pneumoniae was inhibited much more than that of C. trachomatis and the effect of iron restriction largely depended on the cell line used for propagation" (when you get into the full text, c. pneumonia was significantly inhibited for all four cell lines, eg 40 ifu down to 31.6 for cpn cell line BGM (least effect); compare 49.9 down to 18.2 for cell line HEp-2 (greatest effect))

interesting aside re gender "...As iron levels are usually higher in men than in women, this might also be connected with the higher prevalence rate of C. pneumoniae antibodies in males, observed in all populations studied so far."

we already know iron dysregulation can be an issue in ms patients and that it is associated with low zinc status, also common in the average ms patient. issues with imbalanced zinc and iron intakes are well known:

Competitive Interaction of Iron and Zinc in the Diet: Consequences for Human Nutrition (1986)
"ABSTRACT The degree to which inhibitors of zinc bioavailability actually influ ence the zinc status of humans who consume usual meals and diets is not known. The interaction of iron and zinc and competitive inhibition of zinc uptake by excess iron in ratios of 2:1 or greater, when the total amount of ionic species is greater than 25 mg, appear to have a measurable effect on human zinc nutriture. The physiological basis is the competition of these chemically similar ions for some portions of a common absorptive pathway shared between inorganic (nonheme) iron and zinc; this has been demonstrated in animal experiments and in zinc absorption studies in human volunteers. Thus, studies involving formula-fed infants, experimental zinc-depletion diets and pregnant women who took prenatal vitamin-mineral supplements containing high levels of iron have shown growth delay (infants) and a decreased circulating zinc pool (all age groups), suggesting a determinant impact of excessively high Fe/Zn ratios in the diet. Consideration of solutions to these problems, including conscious adjustment of the Fe/Zn ratios in human diets, foods and therapeutic nutrient supplements in order to reduce the zinc-inhibiting effects of iron, should become a priority in policy and marketing discussions within government regulatory agencies, industry and the scientific community of human and clinical nutritionists."

reducing dietary iron may therefore improve zinc absorption gradually over time, depending on the intake of other zinc binding foods. ensuring zinc repletion over the short term, via bloodwork and possible therapeutic supplementation, could improve trace element balance over a shorter time period, with benefits in terms of iron regulation, susceptibility to c.pn infection, and overall vascular health.
bahaha world without zinc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1iCZpFMYd0
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Re: A chronic infective cerebrospinal venulitis?

Postby jimmylegs » Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:27 am

another tidbit related to iron excess secondary to zinc deficiency

Iron toxicity and antioxidant nutrients
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 3X02003797
"Iron is an essential nutrient for the growth, development, and long-term survival of most organisms. High tissue iron concentrations have been associated with the development and progression of several pathological conditions, including certain cancers, liver and heart disease, diabetes, hormonal abnormalities, and immune system dysfunctions. In this review we discuss the relevance of iron toxicity on free radical-mediated tissue damage, and how iron interactions with nutrient antioxidants and other metals can affect the extent of oxidative damage to different biomolecules. It can be concluded that the ingestion of antioxidant rich foods may prevent or delay primary and secondary effects associated with iron overload-related diseases. ... These results support the concept that part of the testes oxidative damage associated with zinc deficiency is due to a secondary iron overload. Zinc deficiency was also found to increase the sensitivity of testes to cadmium-induced oxidation..."
bahaha world without zinc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1iCZpFMYd0
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